What you all think about the electronic logs (eobrs)

[notarps4me]

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14 Hours Rule
A driver may not drive beyond the 14th hour after coming on-duty following 10 hours off-duty.



uThis means, once the driver begins an on-duty period of any kind, the 14 hr. The clock starts. (Line 3 "Driving", or Line 4 "On-Duty Not Driving").
Example:

If a driver starts an on-duty status at 06:00 AM, The driver will have to stop driving at 08:00 PM. (14 hours later)



Lunch breaks, fueling, or other off-duty time do not extend the 14-hour period. The 14 hours are consecutive from the time you start your tour of duty.
On-duty time is defined as all time from the time you begin work or are required to be ready for work until you are relieved from work and all responsibility for doing work.
On-duty time includes time spent:
- Waiting to be dispatched
- Inspecting, servicing, or conditioning a commercial motor vehicle;
- Driving (at the controls of your vehicle);
- In or on your vehicle (except time spent in the sleeper berth), yes time spent in the passenger seat;
- Loading or unloading your vehicle;
- Repairing, obtaining assistance, or attending to a disabled vehicle;
- Performing any other work for a motor carrier;
- Complying with drug or alcohol testing requirements; and
- Performing compensated work for any other employer.
- Time spent being inspected by DOT/CVSA Inspectors.
Easy way to remember this is:
- If you're in front of the curtain log ON-DUTY NOT DRIVING.
- If you're behind the curtain log SLEEPER or OFF-DUTY.
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How do I calculate the 14 Hour rule?

uBy “excluding” any sleeper berth period of at least 2 hours or more which, which when added to a subsequent sleeper berth period totals at least 10 hours., and

uBy including all on-duty time, all off-duty time, all sleeper berth periods of less than 2 hrs and all other sleeper berth periods not used in the calculation, other than the 2 hours or more split sleeper excluded above, used in the 10 hour total.ØNote: Does not have to be the next one.

Can a driver work past his/her 14th hour?

uYes! Unloading, loading, fueling, repairs, etc. are still allowed after the 14th hour. (Logged on Line 4), –However, this time still applies to the maximum for the 60/70 hrs on-duty over 7/8 consecutive days. (Line 4), –The Driver must have a full consecutive 10-hr. break before resuming driving.

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[Gus]

I guess that answers that, twice.

 

[Ragged Rooster]

When I've been stuck behind an accident, I've just placed myself off duty. Yes, it eats into my 14, but not my 11 or 70.

There are times when the e-nag irritates me. More times than I care to count. I don't like it. But it's not nearly as confining as many believe.

You can't write yourself "off duty" if you are stuck in traffic. Off duty is strctly defined as follows...
This was taken directly from the new FMCSA Final Rule off their website.
What Is Off-Duty Time?
[FONT=LCFFL O+ Times,Times][FONT=LCFFL O+ Times,Times]By understanding the definition of on-duty time, you will get a good idea of what is considered off-duty time. In order for time to be considered off duty, you must be relieved of all duty and responsibility for performing work. You must be free to pursue activities of your own choosing and be able to leave the place where your vehicle is parked. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=LCFFL O+ Times,Times][FONT=LCFFL O+ Times,Times][/FONT][/FONT]
Stuck in a traffic jam in NOT off duty and cannot be construed as such.

 

[Mike]

Been on elogs for a while now. It was an adjustment for sure, but I now do better with miles than before.

My only illegal running before elogs was relatively minor things.

Now that my entire terminal is on them, I find it very easy to get the miles. 3-4k most weeks, home for my 34 on the weekend, and home once or twice during the week most weeks.

The adjustment? Learning to follow the rules I was supposed to be following all along.

Benefit to the industry? Drivers will now pay attention to the rule changes and might actually fight back because they can no longer ignore them.

 

[blsqueak]

The only thing that I do not really like about E-logs as opposed to paper, sitting at a t/s with a delivery 5 miles up the road, same city or town. Paper logs, you did not have to log being in the same city as driving, and on E-logs, pull the truck out and get to the shippers, your 14 has started. It really bites when you know that the receiver or shipper is known to take 4-5 hours to load or unload, and you are burning up your hours.

 

[Injun]

If traffic is stopped and I'm standing around gossiping with other drivers, I am certainly not on duty. I find it interesting that the guy who describes in detail how to cheat the logs is going to try to beat me over the head with rules he himself does not fully comprehend. I have been asked to play nice, but that doesn't mean I have to tolerate insults and attacks. Unlike you, I'm not going to start something and then go run and tattle to the mods.

[MENTION=2878]notarps4me[/MENTION]: the only thing that pushes the 14 out besides a full 10 hour break is a period of not less than 8 continuous hours in the sleeper. The 14 continues to run for any shorter length of break time. For the purpose of split sleeper, the shorter time period may be taken in the sleeper, off duty or a combination of the two. But split sleeper is a whole 'nuther discussion deserving of its own thread.

 

[Mike]

The only thing that I do not really like about E-logs as opposed to paper, sitting at a t/s with a delivery 5 miles up the road, same city or town. Paper logs, you did not have to log being in the same city as driving, and on E-logs, pull the truck out and get to the shippers, your 14 has started. It really bites when you know that the receiver or shipper is known to take 4-5 hours to load or unload, and you are burning up your hours.

Thing is, it is the rules you should have the issue with, not elogs which are simply holding you to the rules.

 

[Injun]

Thing is, it is the rules you should have the issue with, not elogs which are simply holding you to the rules.

I agree, to an extent, Boss. My issue with them is the intrusion into my privacy. E-Nags should be a choice, not a mandated requirement.

 

[Gus]

The only thing that I do not really like about E-logs as opposed to paper, sitting at a t/s with a delivery 5 miles up the road, same city or town. Paper logs, you did not have to log being in the same city as driving, and on E-logs, pull the truck out and get to the shippers, your 14 has started. It really bites when you know that the receiver or shipper is known to take 4-5 hours to load or unload, and you are burning up your hours.

Off duty driving is your friend. "I was headed to my favorite restaurant for breakfast. Some companies will let you get away with that. Some only allow off duty driving when empty. I use it quite a bit to keep from starting my 14.

 

[Duck]

When I've been stuck behind an accident, I've just placed myself off duty. Yes, it eats into my 14, but not my 11 or 70.

There are times when the e-nag irritates me. More times than I care to count. I don't like it. But it's not nearly as confining as many believe.

Only if the accident or orange barrel cluster**** keeps you at a dead stop long enough. And it also depends on how the company has their parameters set up. For example, my company's trucks will automatically put you on driving if the truck is in motion for 5 minutes. If you change it from driving to off duty, and immediately start moving again, you have to stop again within 5 minutes or it'll roll all of that time back to driving. Usually if it's that stop/go stuff the odds are going to be 50/50 that you'll save any time. If the road is totally closed for a while due to an accident, then you can log off duty or sleeper.

So basically you just called me a liar? There was NO fairy tale here. SIMPLY FACTS. What you just said is NOT true. You can NOT unload your truck after your 14 is up. Go read FMCSR 395.2. It specifically states (paraphrasing) that all loading and unloading duties MUST BE LOGGED AS ON DUTY. I'll the revision at the bottom of this post. While the specific rule that states You MAY NOT BE ON DUTY MORE THAN 14 hours in any given 24 hour period may not exist, .....

You can't DRIVE after being on duty for 14 hours. You can legally log on duty for 30 hours straight if you want to, you just can't DRIVE after your 14th hour.

You can be on duty past your 14. You just can't drive past your 14.

Exactly

You can't write yourself "off duty" if you are stuck in traffic. Off duty is strctly defined as follows...
This was taken directly from the new FMCSA Final Rule off their website.
What Is Off-Duty Time?
[FONT=LCFFL O+ Times][FONT=LCFFL O+ Times]By understanding the definition of on-duty time, you will get a good idea of what is considered off-duty time. In order for time to be considered off duty, you must be relieved of all duty and responsibility for performing work. You must be free to pursue activities of your own choosing and be able to leave the place where your vehicle is parked. [/FONT][/FONT]

Stuck in a traffic jam in NOT off duty and cannot be construed as such.

That is true. You can't legally log off duty (or sleeper) when you're stuck in traffic. However, ... if they're going over your log, how are they going to prove that you didn't stop and take a 30 minute nap on an exit ramp? They don't log your location all that precisely. You might not be able to say you were at a rest area or truck stop if there isn't one around within 10-20 miles or so, but you can say you were stopped on an exit ramp for a while. In that post, Injun was talking more about how the device works, not the law itself.

 

[Ragged Rooster]

I still would like for someone to give me their interpretation of this. No smartass here, just asking. FMCSA bases your "day" from midnight to midnight (24) hours. 14 hours combination on duty and a 10 hour break. Tarps posted his piece that says you can work past 14 you simply have to take a 10 before you can resume driving. Drivers have been and still are3 ticketed for busting the 14 even sitting at the shipper. There seems to be a conflict of rules here.

That being said, I've never had a log violation save 1. I was driving locally years ago under the 150 mile rule and a TX DPS said I was outside the 150 and made me pull out my log and start logging. This happened in George West TX. I beat the ticket later as I proved to the judge that I was under the 150 and the cop was mistaken. So....it's a matter of curiousity for me.

As far as the "off duty" thing that Injun referred to, I wasn't being a smartass, just informing her that she made be in for a bit of a shock should be called to do a rug dance in her safety office. I worked for Woodfield a few years back. Safety sent a message by qualcom that said from now on we were to log our live loads as such:
Loading or unloading....15 minutes line 4 and the balance on line 1.
If you are held up for ANY reason, go to line 1.

Well you know where that went. A few drivers including me went directly into safety and explained to them the error of their ways. They did not relent and still required us to log as they required. I quit 3 weeks later and within 2 months, they lost a bunch more drivers. The company was reported to FMCSA. One guy took a pic of the qualcom message and sent it to FMCSA. Long story longer, the company wound up having their authority pulled (I think for 6 months) and fined $25,000.
FMCSA gave them the same chapter and verse I posted about off duty.

I'm sure glad I am not driving now and don't have to deal with this crap any more!

 

[Duck]

I still would like for someone to give me their interpretation of this. No smartass here, just asking. FMCSA bases your "day" from midnight to midnight (24) hours. 14 hours combination on duty and a 10 hour break. Tarps posted his piece that says you can work past 14 you simply have to take a 10 before you can resume driving. Drivers have been and still are3 ticketed for busting the 14 even sitting at the shipper. There seems to be a conflict of rules here.

If they're getting fined for logging ON DUTY after their 14 is over, the cops writing the tickets don't know the law. OR, it's because they drove the truck afterwards, without getting in a 10 hour break first.

That being said, I've never had a log violation save 1. I was driving locally years ago under the 150 mile rule and a TX DPS said I was outside the 150 and made me pull out my log and start logging. This happened in George West TX. I beat the ticket later as I proved to the judge that I was under the 150 and the cop was mistaken. So....it's a matter of curiousity for me.

As far as the "off duty" thing that Injun referred to, I wasn't being a smartass, just informing her that she made be in for a bit of a shock should be called to do a rug dance in her safety office. I worked for Woodfield a few years back. Safety sent a message by qualcom that said from now on we were to log our live loads as such:
Loading or unloading....15 minutes line 4 and the balance on line 1.
If you are held up for ANY reason, go to line 1.

Well you know where that went. A few drivers including me went directly into safety and explained to them the error of their ways. They did not relent and still required us to log as they required. I quit 3 weeks later and within 2 months, they lost a bunch more drivers. The company was reported to FMCSA. One guy took a pic of the qualcom message and sent it to FMCSA. Long story longer, the company wound up having their authority pulled (I think for 6 months) and fined $25,000.
FMCSA gave them the same chapter and verse I posted about off duty.

I'm sure glad I am not driving now and don't have to deal with this crap any more!

I've been told you can't legally log off duty at a shipper or receiver, but you can log sleeper. So my company wants us to log 15 minutes ON DUTY then log the rest of that as SLEEPER.

But that's also illegal since you can't log sleeper if you're not actually in the sleeper. So what they do, is they told us to ACTUALLY BE in the sleeper, not sitting in the drivers seat or standing in front of the truck yapping at other drivers. The way they did it, they were clever with their words so they communicated the message of how they wanted us to do it, without actually saying anything that can get them in trouble.

In the event we spend 4 hours manually unloading a truck or standing around inside the dock by the door & we log all 4 hours as ON DUTY, they might bitch & moan about it, but they'll never discipline us for it. In some cases, later in the week when we're 3 hours short on our 70 & can't make a delivery on time because of it, they might go back and change 3:45 of that time to "sleeper" but if we tell them not to, they won't. They know they can't legally edit our logs like that without our permission.

 

[Injun]

Rooster, you are correct in posting what activities are required to be logged on duty. Those guys were probably busted for falsification when they were observed working on the loading dock while their books showed them off duty. You did not post any provision prohibiting on duty time past the 14.

There is no such prohibition. As Tarps and Duck said, you may not DRIVE past your 14.

 

[Mike]

Logging off duty stopped at a wreck is tricky ground. I've done it, but I don't know if I could beat a ticket for it. That one is going to fall according to how it gets interpreted at the time.

Being ticketed for being on duty past your 14 or 70 will not stand. You are allowed to be on duty as long as you want on line 4.

 

[blsqueak]

The rules if I am not mistaken, state that lets say that you are doing lets say 3 stops within the same area, you can log on duty and not driving. With E-logs, you are driving from stop to stop. If I am travelling from the T/S up the road to destination, lets say 1 miles, yes, I can beat the log. Luckily as an L/O, I have what is called line 5, and if going within 1 mile, I will use it. I had to use it once when pulling out of a dock. I was over my 14, and as soon as I put the truck in gear, the little red light came on, I was in Violation, so stopped, line 5, and went 3/4 mile to the truck stop

 

[Mike]

What you call line 5, we call "personal conveyance", simply remarked on line 1. Its helpful, all Im saying

 

[Duck]

The rules if I am not mistaken, state that lets say that you are doing lets say 3 stops within the same area, you can log on duty and not driving. With E-logs, you are driving from stop to stop. If I am travelling from the T/S up the road to destination, lets say 1 miles, yes, I can beat the log. Luckily as an L/O, I have what is called line 5, and if going within 1 mile, I will use it. I had to use it once when pulling out of a dock. I was over my 14, and as soon as I put the truck in gear, the little red light came on, I was in Violation, so stopped, line 5, and went 3/4 mile to the truck stop

According to the safety/log/recruiting guy at my company, you have to log at least 15 minutes between stops even if they're in the same city.

I had 3 pickups in Chicago one day & I asked him. I was on paper logs at the time. He said to show 15 minutes of driving between "Chicago" and "Chicago".

He's not the FMCSA, but he did used to work in a scale house at one point in time.

 

[Injun]

[MENTION=9010]blsqueak[/MENTION]:

Next time that happens, tap on the warning icon on the screen. You will see that the Nag is just nagging you, not hanging a violation on you. Ask me how I know this... heh.

Regarding [MENTION=7569]Rubber Duck[/MENTION]'s post:

I do love how company safety guys try to interpret the FMCSR. Luckily for the companies, they usually take i5 too far and make the rules out to be stricter than written. Swift's safety department likes to do this. It makes it a PITA for the drivers, is all.

 

[Duck]

Regarding @Rubber Duck's post:

I do love how company safety guys try to interpret the FMCSR. Luckily for the companies, they usually take i5 too far and make the rules out to be stricter than written. Swift's safety department likes to do this. It makes it a PITA for the drivers, is all.

So what you're saying is that my company's safety/log/recruiting guy was wrong? That you don't need to log driving time between stops in the same city? It's irrelevant to me now because of e-logs though. But if I post something about the FMCSA rules that is incorrect, I'd like to know.

 

[Injun]

If your driving time is 7 minutes or less, you flag it with "drive x minutes" but do not run a line across 15 minutes of your drive line. The problem with Chicago is you can drive around the block and it take a half hour.

BTW, you can go off duty at a customer if the customer allows you to leave the property while your freight is being tended to.