Noob having a problem down shifting

[saddlesore]

4 gears for every 1 gear in the main box. He started out in 2nd under .. that is 2nd gear in the main box and 2nd (or under) in the aux, shifted to direct (3rd) in the aux, then over (4th) in the aux.... then went to 3rd in the main box & under (2nd) in the aux..
The reason you don't use 1st (deep under) in the aux is that it's ratio overlaps . ie: 2nd over is the same ratio as 3rd deep under
You are splitting the main box 3 or 4 times before you shift the main box to the next gear.. confuzed???

Now the stupid 10 is basically a 5 speed main with a 2 speed aux, you are splitting every gear.

 

[Duck]

My 2006 Columbia has a Detriot with the fly-by-wire throttle. Only time I have an issue is trying to downshift from a higher RPM (1200+). Seems I have to really stomp on it and wait a sec for the revs to spike up so she'll fall in the hole; at least when I float gears - I often double-clutch in those situations to allow me a little more time for the "hole" to "open up".

I tried to double-clutch a couple weeks ago & I thought I was gonna end up breaking something. I couldn't do it at all. I haven't had to do it in like 8 years.

 

[Rigjockey]

4 gears for every 1 gear in the main box. He started out in 2nd under .. that is 2nd gear in the main box and 2nd (or under) in the aux, shifted to direct (3rd) in the aux, then over (4th) in the aux.... then went to 3rd in the main box & under (2nd) in the aux..
The reason you don't use 1st (deep under) in the aux is that it's ratio overlaps . ie: 2nd over is the same ratio as 3rd deep under
You are splitting the main box 3 or 4 times before you shift the main box to the next gear.. confuzed???

I kind of get it, It'ts like splitting a 15 under with another stick instead of a button, I think, Sort of.

Now the stupid 10 is basically a 5 speed main with a 2 speed aux, you are splitting every gear.

Damn I drove one of them super tens in an old brigadier. I did not know what they called it but, It sure was stupid. What a gutless POS that was. I think me and the truck shared the same birth year or close to it. Only a drivers seat and no am/fm.

 

[Duck]

What a gutless POS that was. I think me and the truck shared the same birth year or close to it. Only a drivers seat and no am/fm.

Sounds like some of the junk I drove at Roadway. Some of them damn things didn't even have power steering. The REALLY old ones even had air-start and one old Freightshaker even had air-operated wipers. The passenger window was air-operated too, but you had to crank the left one.

 

[Gased]

[video=youtube_share;9_9kZB5-MyM]http://youtu.be/9_9kZB5-MyM[/video]

That is the proper way, hands down. I would have been in neutral after 8.... c'mon, you guys know you do it!

Nah, ...

Just palm the wheel at the bottom, (the side by your stomach) look in the mirror & move your hand the way you want the rear of the trailer to go. That's the easiest way to remember it.



I wonder if this dude's learning on a Cummins. A Cummins ISX engine would be a pain in the ass to learn on because the damn computer doesn't always bump or drop the RPMs at the same rate with the same amount of pedal movement. I learned on a Detroit and it was easy as pie, .... then a few months later, Covenant gave me a Volvo with a Cummins, ... I probably shaved half the life off them gear teeth trying to get used to that computerized bull****.

Don't be talking about Cummins like that!

They are funny acting but they are some damn good motors.

 

[Duck]

Don't be talking about Cummins like that!

They are funny acting but they are some damn good motors.

The ones my current company have pull pretty good. And only the commie tree hugging parts ever cause any problems.

But I've also been assigned to trucks with Detroits that pulled just as good, were BETTER on fuel, and always responded the same way to the same amount of pedal movement.

 

[Gased]

The ones my current company have pull pretty good. And only the commie tree hugging parts ever cause any problems.

But I've also been assigned to trucks with Detroits that pulled just as good, were BETTER on fuel, and always responded the same way to the same amount of pedal movement.

I have to agree.

My only issue with the Detroits is everyone that I ever drove had some serious maintenance problems. The last one I drove kept giving me some ECU code. It only came on when I started the truck in the morning and the truck ran flat until it cleared itself. When I say flat I mean flat! I would have a 220 excavator on and struggle to get to 35. Then, in the blink of an eye, the code would clear and my turbo would kick back in and I'd be running like a raped date. It was ECU code 135 if I remember correctly. I quit shortly after they finally sent it the dealership to be repaired, never drove it again.


I never had any major issues with the red top. I remember the LTL company I worked for had one that had over a million and had never been opened up, never. The only issue I ever remember having was a bad EGR valve.

I will agree that the Cummins required some finesse when goosing the RPMs on a downshift. The Detroit was standard bump then drop a gear. They were pretty forgiving compared to the Cummins. No argument there.

 

[Marc Letourneau]

Is that what it is? I learned on a CAT and Detriots are about the same when it comes to the drop in RPM. I have the cummins ISX now and it was a bitch to learn.Then every once in a while turbo wants to whine and not kick in.Making a down shift harder.

Don't feel bad, My father has been driving for many years and the 2012 KW has the ISX600 and he sometimes struggles shifting that truck.. Like you said with that engine your tolerance is so much closer than the 3406E trucks we have. In between gears with the CAT you have lunch before you shift into the next gear.

 

[Steve C]

I wonder if this dude's learning on a Cummins. A Cummins ISX engine would be a pain in the ass to learn on because the damn computer doesn't always bump or drop the RPMs at the same rate with the same amount of pedal movement..

Yep, Cummins ISX! So I guess I've stumbled onto a double whammy of a temperamental engine paired with an oddball transmission. I thought something was funny about how inconsistent the RPM pops and drops were. I guess I wasn't imagining things. I suppose if I can make it through this, I should be fairly good to go on most anything else.

Thanks for all the encouragement.

P.S. My instructor promises that I'm doing much better than I think I am.
Also, one of the students actually got kicked out of the class yesterday because he almost tipped the rig over - twice

 

[Duck]

Yep, Cummins ISX! So I guess I've stumbled onto a double whammy of a temperamental engine paired with an oddball transmission. I thought something was funny about how inconsistent the RPM pops and drops were. I guess I wasn't imagining things. I suppose if I can make it through this, I should be fairly good to go on most anything else.

Thanks for all the encouragement.

P.S. My instructor promises that I'm doing much better than I think I am.
Also, one of the students actually got kicked out of the class yesterday because he almost tipped the rig over - twice

I don't know if I could help you cuz I haven't driven an ISX engine with a super-10 since 2004. Since about the end of 2005 I've been driving nothing but Cummins ISX motors with 13 speeds.

With a 13 speed, once you get in high range it works just like a super-10 with the splitter, but there isn't as much RPM drop between shifts. A 13 speed is designed for keeping the engine closer to it's sweet spot when pulling heavier loads.

 

[ProDriver77]

I tried to double-clutch a couple weeks ago & I thought I was gonna end up breaking something. I couldn't do it at all. I haven't had to do it in like 8 years.

I do it more often than I like here in the NE. I hit a lot of "suicide" off ramps and need to grab gears quickly. I find compared to floating, I need to bring the RPMs up a little more to compensate for the time need to press the clutch back on and grab the gear.

 

[Duck]

I do it more often than I like here in the NE. I hit a lot of "suicide" off ramps and need to grab gears quickly. I find compared to floating, I need to bring the RPMs up a little more to compensate for the time need to press the clutch back on and grab the gear.

The jake is just for keeping the wear & tear off the wheel brakes, but for quick or unexpected stops, I just use the wheel brakes. You can stop the truck quicker that way and with better control because you aren't taking your foot off the brake to mess around with the accelerator.

 

[ProDriver77]

The jake is just for keeping the wear & tear off the wheel brakes, but for quick or unexpected stops, I just use the wheel brakes. You can stop the truck quicker that way and with better control because you aren't taking your foot off the brake to mess around with the accelerator.

That's the drawback to what I do now - local driving with a 2006 Freightliner Columbia single-axle daycab with no jake. Makes me miss the twin-screwed '11 Prostar we rented last week with 3-stage jake even more (although International's version of an "air horn" left MUCH to be desired)!

Can't complain though: I only spend about 15% of my week at work pulling a trailer, and the rest of it in a 26' straight job with an Allison automatic; and still get paid as if I was in a semi all the time. Sweet gig!

 

[Rigjockey]

I leave my jake on all the time unless I get to an area that says PLEASE AVOID USING JAKE BRAKES IF POSSIBLE.( yes that's the signage in Canada. They are polite phuckers)lol. If I am in a good mood I will turn them off.

 

[Duck]

... (although International's version of an "air horn" left MUCH to be desired)!

The KW T-660 I drive also has a pathetic air horn.

If you give it two quick yanks on the braided rope thingy, it sounds like one of these bicycle horns:

View attachment 19192
View attachment 19192

 

[Rigjockey]

The KW T-660 I drive also has a pathetic air horn.

If you give it two quick yanks on the braided rope thingy, it sounds like one of these bicycle horns:

View attachment 19193

I have never tried it, They braided cord is to far away, Seems like allot of work to reach that far forward. I would have to be really ****ed off.
View attachment 19193

 

[Duck]

I have never tried it, They braided cord is to far away, Seems like allot of work to reach that far forward. I would have to be really ****ed off.

Apparently you're not one of those guys who drives the trucks in the movies or TV shows.

Every time an 18 wheeler is shown in a movie, even if it's just passing in the background and has nothing to do with the story, the truck always honks the air horn.

 

[Steve C]

I had a much better day yesterday, but now I have another question. Went out onto the freeway for the first time and took lots of on and off ramps, so I had lots of shifting practice.
Here's my new problem / question: I am supposed to start my downshift at 1,100 rpm, - pull out of gear, hold the stick against the lower gear, bump it up to around 1,500 and drop it in. However, I can't seem to get the throttle and right foot to cooperate. For the life of me, I can't get the rpm's to smoothly climb up to the shift point. The pedal seems so touchy, either it's not coming up at all, or I'm over-shooting up to 1,800 or so.
And to further complicate matters and confuse the heck out of me, the smoothest shifts I made were before I could get the rpm's back up. It would just fall right in at 700 or 800. My instructor tried to explain something about ground speed and engine speed and matching revolutions and so forth but I don't get it at all. If I'm supposed to downshift after I'm up around 1,500, how is it that sometimes it falls right in at the much lower range.
P.S. It sure wouldn't do this going down into 4th. Those times I definitely did have to get up to around 1,500.

 

[Marc Letourneau]

Not quite sure why the instructor is telling you to the lug the engine down that low before you down shift... If you were loaded you could possibly do damage to the engine by bringing it down that low on the RPM's. Personally I don't go under 1250 RPM's, There isn't any need too because downshifting takes a second. When I say this I am talking about pulling a hill, On flat ground it's not as bad.. When I downshift I mostly listen to the engine and when I downshift full gears I only need to bring the RPM's up 500 RPM's to shift full gears and only 250 RPM's when splitting gears. I usually don't even look at the tach because 500 RPM's are not very high at all.

 

[butter]

1) Are you sure this is a "super 10?" Please verify. Do you have to do anything between 9th and 10th gears? How many times do you physically have to move the gear shifter to go through all 10 gears?

2) If this in fact a super 10, then you don't have to use the clutch at all from 1-10 irregardless of upshifting or downshifting.
How will this be regarded by the test agency, i don't know.

3) Unfortunately, with shifting some people get it and some people don't----it's like jazz. What i would suggest to anyone before even thinking about driving a truck or learning to drive a truck is to get a 10 speed bike and ride it around-----ALOT. This can teach you so much about rpm relation to road speed, the need for different gears in the first place and when to use them etc.
Then simply turn the bike upside down and move the pedals by hand and switch gears observing pedal (engine) rpm vs. wheel speed.