Knowledge, Knowledge, Knowledge

[Injun]

What is?

"Time spent resting in a parked vehicle"

........................
395.2:
"On-duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;

(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;

(4) All time in or on a commercial motor vehicle, other than:

(i) Time spent resting in or on a parked vehicle, except as otherwise provided in § 397.5 of this subchapter;

(ii) Time spent resting in a sleeper berth; or

(iii) Up to 2 hours riding in the passenger seat of a property-carrying vehicle moving on the highway immediately before or after a period of at least 8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth"
........................


Way I read that is, if the customer tells me "come back in three hours," the customer just told me I could leave the facility if I want to. (Not that it really matters.) My company doesn't expect me to watch-dog the truck. If they did, they'd have specific guidance telling us we're not allowed to be in the sleeper while the truck is on customer property. If I'm allowed to be in the sleeper, obviously, off duty-not in the truck is an option according to the company. Therefore, the company (carrier) has relieved me from duty.

If off duty-not in the truck is allowed, then by logic, off duty-in the truck is allowed. Therefore, if the customer told me "Come back in XX time frame" and I'm goofing off inside my parked truck, I am OFF duty. If the air brake is pulled, the truck is parked. It doesn't matter that it's parked in the customer's dock. FMCSR doesn't limit the locations where a truck can be parked.

 

[DubbleD]

Define "enforce it"? For me, if I see it, I just remind the driver they were supposed to take it. I don't even put it on the ASPEN. It's not even an OOS violation.

I was hoping you'd side with the majority in regard to the 34 hour restart.... Then I was gonna hit ya with the "why"....

But you chickened and agreed with it!

Kinda ruins the punch line.

 

[Osito]

"Time spent resting in a parked vehicle"

........................
395.2:
"On-duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;

(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;

(4) All time in or on a commercial motor vehicle, other than:

(i) Time spent resting in or on a parked vehicle, except as otherwise provided in § 397.5 of this subchapter;

(ii) Time spent resting in a sleeper berth; or

(iii) Up to 2 hours riding in the passenger seat of a property-carrying vehicle moving on the highway immediately before or after a period of at least 8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth"
........................


Way I read that is, if the customer tells me "come back in three hours," the customer just told me I could leave the facility if I want to. (Not that it really matters.) My company doesn't expect me to watch-dog the truck. If they did, they'd have specific guidance telling us we're not allowed to be in the sleeper while the truck is on customer property. If I'm allowed to be in the sleeper, obviously, off duty-not in the truck is an option according to the company. Therefore, the company (carrier) has relieved me from duty.

If off duty-not in the truck is allowed, then by logic, off duty-in the truck is allowed. Therefore, if the customer told me "Come back in XX time frame" and I'm goofing off inside my parked truck, I am OFF duty. If the air brake is pulled, the truck is parked. It doesn't matter that it's parked in the customer's dock. FMCSR doesn't limit the locations where a truck can be parked.

and here is the part I was refering too....

395.2:
"On-duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

Now, you get to guard shack, check in, get your dock, (green light and red light i was referring too was when your trailer is latched to the dock, and unlatched)...
back in and wait.....at that point in time, you haven't been relieved from your carrier....or the shipper or reciever....

now if the shipper / reciever says to drop and you can leave...then yes i would agree, but not many do allow that option...on another note....

if shipper/reciever, has a seperate break room and requires you to stay in the breakroom that too is also considered to be off duty and relieved.

so, from my understanding on this, unless one is told that they are relieved from duty from the carrier they drive for, for loading and unloading all time on property is suppose to be line 4.

 

[Sapper]

They changed the guidance so that sitting in the drivers seat can still be off-duty. After too many of your brethren were taking pleasure writing tickets to guys for sitting in the seat during breaks.

Guidance? Haven't seen that. Do you have this information?

 

[Sapper]

Osito, sorry, thought I was responding to Injun.

 

[Rigjockey]

Fifteen minutes to check in and back in to a door is all I log. The unloading time is all off-duty.

I did have have a DOT actually it was an MTO inspector ask me what I do on my off duty time? I do whatever I want. I may go for a walk. ( LOL, I can not walk very far, My back is messed up. ) Hell they don't know what you do and they can't prove it in most cases.

Then I said sometimes I watch T.V. That is where he tripped me up. He says you're logging it wrong. I got mad and said how do you figure? I am free to pursue activities of my own choosing.

He said do you watch your T.V in the sleeper? Yes, sometimes. Then you are logging it wrong that needs to be marked sleeper.
Come on man You splitting hairs! He never wrote me up for it

 

[Injun]

and here is the part I was refering too....

395.2:
"On-duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

Now, you get to guard shack, check in, get your dock, (green light and red light i was referring too was when your trailer is latched to the dock, and unlatched)...
back in and wait.....at that point in time, you haven't been relieved from your carrier....or the shipper or reciever....

now if the shipper / reciever says to drop and you can leave...then yes i would agree, but not many do allow that option...on another note....

if shipper/reciever, has a seperate break room and requires you to stay in the breakroom that too is also considered to be off duty and relieved.

so, from my understanding on this, unless one is told that they are relieved from duty from the carrier they drive for, for loading and unloading all time on property is suppose to be line 4.

Do you log the nap you took in the sleeper while the dock people fiddle around as On Duty?

If you log that as Sleeper Berth time, obviously you're relieved from duty. You can't be on duty while you're sleeping.

If you're allowed to sleep, you're allowed to be off duty.

 

[Sapper]

Sapper is one confused meatball right now. Going back and forth from poster to poster. My apologies. For those following this thread, try to follow me on this whole Off Duty versus On Duty Driving, with respect to sitting at the controls with the engine running. And please understand this point- If DOT shuts you down for a False Log, can you ever get that time back? You could fight the citation, but those 10 hours, they're gone, forever.

Yes, there are a lot of "what if's". So, let's look at from the POV of the attorneys and the officer for a moment. So, I'm sitting there in court, and I'm asked to define On DutyDriving Time:

395.2 On-duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:

That word "shall" is very important. As it means, must.

(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;

So then I quote:

395.2 Driving time means all time spent at the driving controls of a commercial motor vehicle in operation.

So, a good lawyer will ask about the above highlighted in the red, agree? And then I will provide those "guidance's", that I provided Duck.

Now, your lawyer, or you, will argue for:

(4) All time in or on a commercial motor vehicle, other than:

(i) Time spent resting in or on a parked vehicle, except as otherwise provided in § 397.5 of this subchapter

But nowhere in the reg, does it allow for this above action, while the engine is running! Yet, the reg does define, and then provides "guidance", for what should be logged, if the engine IS running.

That is what will be argued in court. I've tried to find something in the driver's favor, I can't find it. I wish I could, and if anybody has anything, please, let me know. The vagueness is what pissess me off. I just don't want any of ya's getting hammed stringed for what you and I agree on. Because you can't get rid of that one little word, "SHALL".

 

[Rigjockey]

When i was doing in-cab training and we would get to the receiver, The trainee would be like Wheew. No I can relax.
( for new drivers, Driving for extended periods takes its toll)

No. Driving here was your relaxation! Now you got to figure out how to get out of here and how we are getting to our pick-up for our re-load.

Yes all of that except 15 mins check in is logged off duty.

 

[Injun]

Sapper is one confused meatball right now. Going back and forth from poster to poster. My apologies. For those following this thread, try to follow me on this whole Off Duty versus On Duty Driving, with respect to sitting at the controls with the engine running. And please understand this point- If DOT shuts you down for a False Log, can you ever get that time back? You could fight the citation, but those 10 hours, they're gone, forever.

Yes, there are a lot of "what if's". So, let's look at from the POV of the attorneys and the officer for a moment. So, I'm sitting there in court, and I'm asked to define On DutyDriving Time:

395.2 On-duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:

That word "shall" is very important. As it means, must.

(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;

So then I quote:

395.2 Driving time means all time spent at the driving controls of a commercial motor vehicle in operation.

So, a good lawyer will ask about the above highlighted in the red, agree? And then I will provide those "guidance's", that I provided Duck.

Now, your lawyer, or you, will argue for:

(4) All time in or on a commercial motor vehicle, other than:

(i) Time spent resting in or on a parked vehicle, except as otherwise provided in § 397.5 of this subchapter

But nowhere in the reg, does it allow for this above action, while the engine is running! Yet, the reg does define, and then provides "guidance", for what should be logged, if the engine IS running.

That is what will be argued in court. I've tried to find something in the driver's favor, I can't find it. I wish I could, and if anybody has anything, please, let me know. The vagueness is what pissess me off. I just don't want any of ya's getting hammed stringed for what you and I agree on. Because you can't get rid of that one little word, "SHALL".

They write the rulebook with one thing in mind and then the lawyers twist it around so much it means the exact opposite.

When the final rule was released, the (not legally binding) statement that went with it was specifically to address safety and comfort of the driver. FMCSA knows we use the driver seat as an easy chair and the steering wheel as a coffee table. They also know that climate control is important for safety and comfort regardless of what the EPA wants to believe. Often, climate control requires idling the truck. Yeh, the engine is "operating." But the truck is not.

But, like usual, anything that is written with a benefit to the driver in mind gets bastardized to the extent it's useless.

 

[Hammer166]

Guidance? Haven't seen that. Do you have this information?

My bad, not guidance, but it was actually a regulatory change.

On-duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

(2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;

(3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;

(4) All time in or on a commercial motor vehicle, other than:

(i) Time spent resting in or on a parked vehicle, except as otherwise provided in § 397.5 of this subchapter;

(ii) Time spent resting in a sleeper berth; or

(iii) Up to 2 hours riding in the passenger seat of a property-carrying vehicle moving on the highway immediately before or after a period of at least 8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth;

 

[Sapper]

My bad, not guidance, but it was actually a regulatory change.

True about the change. That came about for the Day Cab driver's, and the RV transporters, so they could rest in a parked vehicle. But I still can't find where it allows for the "engine to be running", and be sitting at the wheel, which is so stupid!!!!! A day cab driver, in MT, MN, SD, ND ect is supposed to turn off his truck, in the middle of winter???????? I'd just move to the passenger seat for now, leave it running, until somebody decides to pull their head out from their 4th point of contact.

 

[Sapper]

Often, climate control requires idling the truck. Yeh, the engine is "operating." But the truck is not.

It's "where" your sitting, while the truck is idling, that is determining which to log by definition. I'd just move to the SB or to the passenger seat. 2 seconds to save me hundreds $$$$, and the hassle.

 

[Rigjockey]

It's "where" your sitting, while the truck is idling, that is determining which to log by definition. I'd just move to the SB or to the passenger seat. 2 seconds to save me hundreds $$$$, and the hassle.

I am not sure about now with the new rule but, The passenger seat was also to be logged on-duty. That was in reference to team driving and being in the passengers seat.

 

[Injun]

I am not sure about now with the new rule but, The passenger seat was also to be logged on-duty. That was in reference to team driving and being in the passengers seat.

Team drivers are now allowed to log no more than two hours in the passenger seat as Off Duty as long as there are at least eight continuous hours' sleeper berth time immediately next to it.

 

[Sapper]

I am not sure about now with the new rule but, The passenger seat was also to be logged on-duty. That was in reference to team driving and being in the passengers seat.

yup. It was funny to see passenger's running into the SB to avoid having to log On Duty not driving. I think that is a good rule change.

 

[Rigjockey]

Team drivers are now allowed to log no more than two hours in the passenger seat as Off Duty as long as there are at least eight continuous hours' sleeper berth time immediately next to it.

Yes, Maybe I did not word it right. If you are on duty as a team when in the passengers seat. Would one not be on duty in the passengers seat as a single?

 

[Rigjockey]

yup. It was funny to see passenger's running into the SB to avoid having to log On Duty not driving. I think that is a good rule change.

Oh you saw me do that? LOL. Yup that is what we did when approaching a scale. lol

 

[Sapper]

Yes, Maybe I did not word it right. If you are on duty as a team when in the passengers seat. Would one not be on duty in the passengers seat as a single?

Nope, unless you can drive from the PS? That little 'ol word "parked" has you covered.

 

[Osito]

Yes, there are a lot of "what if's". So, let's look at from the POV of the attorneys and the officer for a moment. So, I'm sitting there in court, and I'm asked to define On DutyDriving Time:

395.2 On-duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:
.

Ok, so i know this is a what if scenario, but let me ask you this and maybe you can make it a little bit more clear so that way even a knucklehead idiot like me can understand this correcty...(PATTY< DUCK<INJUN< i don't need no input from the peanut gallery here lmao)....

so by what you are saying is if i have a load that is floor loaded, (reason i use floor loaded as this way we can use whatever time frame that is needed)..

that by what you are all saying is i drive on line 3 to arrive at reciever, put myself on line 4 to check in and dock....once I am docked then a person is allowed to goto line 1 or 2. then when one is done being unloaded then one goes back onto line 4 goes in gets paperwork, and leaves and puts oneself on line 3?

does this apply to when there are timestamps on paperwork...and lets just say to make things easy using above scenario. bills are timestamped with
start time at 0800
end time 1100

so would you show 15-30 mins for on duty for the 8am time stamp then show off duty then show maybe 15 for on duty end time at 1100 and show all the time inbetween as off duty? I really don't know as my whole understanding of this was that if times were put on the bills all times on the bills had to be line 4 so meaning from 0800-1100 had to be all line 4...(again allot of what i have done and continue to do even though its by the book has been what was dictated by BFC's)

how would you treat the above issue....