Knowledge, Knowledge, Knowledge

[Sapper]

Ex-driver, now an enforcement officer. Don't ask where, as I don't want the "flag pole" to know I'm here. Would I drive again? YES! If the pay is right. FB, Step deck, RGN, Tanker..... But why am I here? As a current DOT Officer, I'd love for you all to abuse me for knowledge. I have read and heard from too many "Truck Stop Lawyers" who think they KNOW the rules of the FMCSR. Am I an expert? Nope! But I know 393 and 395 very well. And as for the rest, what I don't know, I can find out.

On a side note- Yes, I'd prefer to be a safety officer for a trucking company. So any companies out there looking for a good SO, who can help you with your CSA score, contact me. Again, the pay would have to be right.

 

[JunkYardDog5958]

For the record I don't frown on "most" of you DOT officers. Most of you are just doing your job as we do ours. It's the ones who think they're God and have power trip I have issues with.

 

[Hammer166]

First you have to tell us about the drivers who call the US Marshals on you!

 

[Rigjockey]

First you have to tell us about the drivers who call the US Marshals on you!

 

[Duck]

Scenario:

An owner/operator takes his 10 hour break at a rest area.
During his pre-trip, he discovers a trailer tail light out.
He doesn't have a replacement but he knows he can get one at the truck stop 14 miles up the road for $7 and replace it himself in 5 minutes. But to call a repair truck out to the rest area would cost him a couple hundred.

Not being completely lacking in common sense, the driver decides to head 14 miles up the road to the truck stop.

He gets a replacement tail light, replaces it & heads on down the road.

In your professional opinion as a LEO, was that driver guilty of a crime?

 

[JunkYardDog5958]

Scenario:

An owner/operator takes his 10 hour break at a rest area.
During his pre-trip, he discovers a trailer tail light out.
He doesn't have a replacement but he knows he can get one at the truck stop 14 miles up the road for $7 and replace it himself in 5 minutes. But to call a repair truck out to the rest area would cost him a couple hundred.

Not being completely lacking in common sense, the driver decides to head 14 miles up the road to the truck stop.

He gets a replacement tail light, replaces it & heads on down the road.

In your professional opinion as a LEO, was that driver guilty of a crime?

Great scenario!

 

[Rigjockey]

Scenario:

An owner/operator takes his 10 hour break at a rest area.
During his pre-trip, he discovers a trailer tail light out.
He doesn't have a replacement but he knows he can get one at the truck stop 14 miles up the road for $7 and replace it himself in 5 minutes. But to call a repair truck out to the rest area would cost him a couple hundred.

Not being completely lacking in common sense, the driver decides to head 14 miles up the road to the truck stop.

He gets a replacement tail light, replaces it & heads on down the road.

In your professional opinion as a LEO, was that driver guilty of a crime?

Great scenario!

Not really. The answer is 7! lol

 

[Osito]

Not really. The answer is 7! lol

answer is actually 14....you didn't consider somethings.....show your work how you got to 7 and I can point out what you didn't do correctly...

 

[Osito]

ok here is another scenario for you.....

Driver pulls into rest area, and is parked legally, does what he needs too and then goes to bed......3 hours later officer fife shows up and knocks on his door to do an inspection.....(legal / illegal?)

 

[Rigjockey]

ok here is another scenario for you.....

Driver pulls into rest area, and is parked legally, does what he needs too and then goes to bed......3 hours later officer fife shows up and knocks on his door to do an inspection.....(legal / illegal?)

It matters not. Because I am not getting out of bed.

 

[Sapper]

First you have to tell us about the drivers who call the US Marshals on you!

LOL!!!! I've heard of that, but it hasn't happened to me.

 

[Sapper]

Scenario:

An owner/operator takes his 10 hour break at a rest area.
During his pre-trip, he discovers a trailer tail light out.
He doesn't have a replacement but he knows he can get one at the truck stop 14 miles up the road for $7 and replace it himself in 5 minutes. But to call a repair truck out to the rest area would cost him a couple hundred.

Not being completely lacking in common sense, the driver decides to head 14 miles up the road to the truck stop.

He gets a replacement tail light, replaces it & heads on down the road.

In your professional opinion as a LEO, was that driver guilty of a crime?

Guilty of a crime? A crime requires an element of a victim, and as there is no victim, I would not call it a crime. Now, you say he headed up the road. Did he bobtail, get the light, and return to the trailer(safest course of action)? Is it one of the lamps for the turn signal, which would be an OOS violation? Or is it one of the brake lamps, not an OOS violation, but still a violation? I myself, no matter the what choice he chose, would probably not do anything, as in your scenario, I did not "catch" him in the act. But if I had, and he showed me his DVIR(which is NOT a requirement to do btw), and it shows he just discovered it, I would follow him to the TS, make sure he wasn't pulling my leg by having him repair in front of me, and then be on my way. Did I mention that I'd give him a "what for", for not having spare bulbs??????

 

[mndriver]

Sorry sapper, you need to go back to school....

 

[Sapper]

ok here is another scenario for you.....

Driver pulls into rest area, and is parked legally, does what he needs too and then goes to bed......3 hours later officer fife shows up and knocks on his door to do an inspection.....(legal / illegal?)

What moron of a LEO would do that, oh wait, I've met some. As your question/scenario is vague, I'll try. Technically, as the vehicle IS NOT currently in operation, nor is the driver in an "On Duty Status", neither is subject to an inspection. But, some states do not allow CMV's to be parked for such length of time in rest areas. So the LEO could cite you for that violation, and then ask you to move. But, the LEO can't require you to move, nor should you, if such actions put in violation of your HOS. Emergencies are the only exceptions.

 

[Sapper]

Sorry sapper, you need to go back to school....

How's that? It's easy to say, when you aren't being specific. Please provide me with how I might be wrong.

 

[Osito]

What moron of a LEO would do that, oh wait, I've met some. As your question/scenario is vague, I'll try. Technically, as the vehicle IS NOT currently in operation, nor is the driver in an "On Duty Status", neither is subject to an inspection. But, some states do not allow CMV's to be parked for such length of time in rest areas. So the LEO could cite you for that violation, and then ask you to move. But, the LEO can't require you to move, nor should you, if such actions put in violation of your HOS. Emergencies are the only exceptions.

happened not in a rest area, but had happen at maggies in illionois when they first put the dot office in the truckstop.....

drivers were parked legally, and officers would wake them up make them move their trucks to inspection area and give inspections.....truckstop finally put up boundries, and stopped it from happening since....

I have heard of drivers being parked illegally, and having it done, which to me seems maybe not right, but maybe they should have parked legally.

some of the scale houses too, allow trucks to park there for rests, and in turn would do the inspection thing...that is why allot of trucks won't park at weighstations that have 24 hour safe haven.

anyways, it does happen and does occur....

So, we got some base coverage of knowledge and what you are kinda about here is a good one...

what and how do you apply personal drive time? miles? etc....that seems to be a big topic what would you consider reasonable miles? Heard some say they drove across 3 states on personal drive time, to me this doesn't seem legal...so what is your take on this?

 

[mndriver]

Scenario:

An owner/operator takes his 10 hour break at a rest area.
During his pre-trip, he discovers a trailer tail light out.
He doesn't have a replacement but he knows he can get one at the truck stop 14 miles up the road for $7 and replace it himself in 5 minutes. But to call a repair truck out to the rest area would cost him a couple hundred.

Not being completely lacking in common sense, the driver decides to head 14 miles up the road to the truck stop.

He gets a replacement tail light, replaces it & heads on down the road.

In your professional opinion as a LEO, was that driver guilty of a crime?

How's that? It's easy to say, when you aren't being specific. Please provide me with how I might be wrong.

Figured you'd say that...

First. the tail light...
Regulations Section | Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The online version doesn't give all the nice little diagrams readily like the books do. But it states that it should have "one lamp on each side of centerline at the same height and as far apart as practical." Ok. So that's ONE lamp. Often, there are 2 or three per side. So he's still covered there. It also says to see "Footnote 5" and "Footnote 11" Footnote 5 is irrelevant because that references a converter dolly. We don't have a convertor dolly here.

Footnote 11 says, "To be illuminated when tractor headlamps are illuminated." Since it's morning, and daylight, he's not required to have the headlamps illuminated. It's iffy here.

However.......

And this is the rule that most drivers are not allowed to utilize or realize if GIVEN to us to allow us some leeway...
Regulations Section | Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

§ 396.7: Unsafe operations forbidden.

(a) General. A motor vehicle shall not be operated in such a condition as to likely cause an accident or a breakdown of the vehicle.

(b) Exemption. Any motor vehicle discovered to be in an unsafe condition while being operated on the highway may be continued in operation only to the nearest place where repairs can safely be effected. Such operation shall be conducted only if it is less hazardous to the public than to permit the vehicle to remain on the highway.

I'll give you a by though since it's in Section 396 and not your 393 or 395.

 

[mndriver]

happened not in a rest area, but had happen at maggies in illionois when they first put the dot office in the truckstop.....

drivers were parked legally, and officers would wake them up make them move their trucks to inspection area and give inspections.....truckstop finally put up boundries, and stopped it from happening since....

I have heard of drivers being parked illegally, and having it done, which to me seems maybe not right, but maybe they should have parked legally.

some of the scale houses too, allow trucks to park there for rests, and in turn would do the inspection thing...that is why allot of trucks won't park at weighstations that have 24 hour safe haven.

anyways, it does happen and does occur....

So, we got some base coverage of knowledge and what you are kinda about here is a good one...

what and how do you apply personal drive time? miles? etc....that seems to be a big topic what would you consider reasonable miles? Heard some say they drove across 3 states on personal drive time, to me this doesn't seem legal...so what is your take on this?

Case law in Ohio makes it illegal for an inspector to roust a driver. As well as there was just recently an "obstruction of Justice" case that was won for the driver when he refused to comply with an inspectors demands.

 

[Sapper]

happened not in a rest area, but had happen at maggies in illionois when they first put the dot office in the truckstop.....

drivers were parked legally, and officers would wake them up make them move their trucks to inspection area and give inspections.....truckstop finally put up boundries, and stopped it from happening since....

I have heard of drivers being parked illegally, and having it done, which to me seems maybe not right, but maybe they should have parked legally.

some of the scale houses too, allow trucks to park there for rests, and in turn would do the inspection thing...that is why allot of trucks won't park at weighstations that have 24 hour safe haven.

anyways, it does happen and does occur....

So, we got some base coverage of knowledge and what you are kinda about here is a good one...

what and how do you apply personal drive time? miles? etc....that seems to be a big topic what would you consider reasonable miles? Heard some say they drove across 3 states on personal drive time, to me this doesn't seem legal...so what is your take on this?

I know it does, yet it shouldn't. Those officers, IMHO, are "badge wearers", not "badge bearers".

And as to your questions, the FMCSR's answer your questions quite well in the interpretations. But as a basic rule, if the vehicle IS NOT in commerce, OR LADEN, and the company has relieved you of all responsibility, then any and all drive time is "OFF DUTY", as the CMV is now a "personal conveyance", not a CMV. There is also a portion of the FMCSR that talks about "reasonable distance" for meals and shopping. Where I live and work, that might be 50 miles or more of driving. In this situation, the driver should know the rules, and be prudent. WALMART 40 miles away, SAFEWAY 20 miles away, should be going to SAFEWAY. Again, I might give a "what for" if he was going to WALMART, but not perform any enforcement actions.

 

[Osito]

Case law in Ohio makes it illegal for an inspector to roust a driver. As well as there was just recently an "obstruction of Justice" case that was won for the driver when he refused to comply with an inspectors demands.

yes the refused to comply was with border patrol and he was in the sleeper...big win for us all....hate it when I was teaming that in the middle of a good sleep always woken up for my id...but that is what happens when the fear is put into us....fortunately, there was a person who wasn't afraid to take it to the hilt....
and he won....