Knowledge, Knowledge, Knowledge

[mndriver]

I know it does, yet it shouldn't. Those officers, IMHO, are "badge wearers", not "badge bearers".

And as to your questions, the FMCSR's answer your questions quite well in the interpretations. But as a basic rule, if the vehicle IS NOT in commerce, OR LADEN, and the company has relieved you of all responsibility, then any and all drive time is "OFF DUTY", as the CMV is now a "personal conveyance", not a CMV. There is also a portion of the FMCSR that talks about "reasonable distance" for meals and shopping. Where I live and work, that might be 50 miles or more of driving. In this situation, the driver should know the rules, and be prudent. WALMART 40 miles away, SAFEWAY 20 miles away, should be going to SAFEWAY. Again, I might give a "what for" if he was going to WALMART, but not perform any enforcement actions.

Why give him the "what for". didn't know that we had to carry papers now declaring our daily intentions and seek permission from LEO for doing things in our personal life.

"you loaded?" "no.

"thanks, Have a nice day".

All that's needed.

I like your avatar.

This should ring close to you too.

 

[Sapper]

Figured you'd say that...

First. the tail light...
Regulations Section | Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The online version doesn't give all the nice little diagrams readily like the books do. But it states that it should have "one lamp on each side of centerline at the same height and as far apart as practical." Ok. So that's ONE lamp. Often, there are 2 or three per side. So he's still covered there. It also says to see "Footnote 5" and "Footnote 11" Footnote 5 is irrelevant because that references a converter dolly. We don't have a convertor dolly here.

Footnote 11 says, "To be illuminated when tractor headlamps are illuminated." Since it's morning, and daylight, he's not required to have the headlamps illuminated. It's iffy here.

However.......

And this is the rule that most drivers are not allowed to utilize or realize if GIVEN to us to allow us some leeway...
Regulations Section | Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration



I'll give you a by though since it's in Section 396 and not your 393 or 395.

Thanks for the "by", LOL. But I tried as best I could, with the "scenario" given. Bottom line though- 1) If it is a turn signal lamp, the trailer is OOS. 2) If it is a brake lamp, it IS NOT OOS, but it is a deficiency, and could be placed on inspection report. 3) Very few trailers have "6" tail lamps, so you are getting into semantics, as it would be neither OOS or a violation, as the 3rd lamp IS NOT a required lamp.

To your "case law" situation, that is a state, not a federal situation. In my state, it is illegal to wake a legally parked CMV driver, no matter the reason, as we don't have a "time standard", for parking in a rest area. But it may not be in other states. I think Virginia, or is it W. Virginia, that only allows 3 hours. Doesn't matter though, as neither is in operation, so they are not subject to inspection. BUT, if the driver starts that engine, because the officer says, I won't cite you for the time standard if you move now, then all that is out the window, as the driver and vehicle are now in operation, and ARE subject to inspection.

So, no, I wasn't wrong, and I don't need to go back to school.

 

[mndriver]

Driver A is northbound on interstate. Vehicle in front of him blows a tire and lays chunks of rubber all over the road.

Driver A does his best to avoid the debris yet still hits a portion of it resulting in a broken Spring Air line to the trailer brakes on one corner.

Driver A is forced to the side of the road as his trailer brakes are now activated from the loss of air pressure.

Is the driver able to effect emergency repairs to allow him to get to the next service location to repair the truck?

 

[Duck]

In my state, it is illegal to wake a legally parked CMV driver, no matter the reason,

If his truck is on fire, you'd better wake him up.

 

[Mike]

Welcome @Sapper

Good to have someone here from the enforcement side of trucking. if you stick around, I have a couple ideas about how use your knowledge in a productive way.

 

[Sapper]

Why give him the "what for". didn't know that we had to carry papers now declaring our daily intentions and seek permission from LEO for doing things in our personal life.

"you loaded?" "no.

"thanks, Have a nice day".

All that's needed.

I like your avatar.

This should ring close to you too.
View attachment 30187

You're worse than a butterfly. I was answering about OFF DUTY driving, and your talking about a border inspection. Please, stay on topic if you are going to try to belittle someone in a forum. And NO, I don't like your crest, as MP's were some of the worst "LEO's" I ever met. If that's an MP crest, not sure, either way, it's no where near me.

 

[mndriver]

Welcome @Sapper

Good to have someone here from the enforcement side of trucking. if you stick around, I have a couple ideas about how use your knowledge in a productive way.

Love to see that. Really would. Seems to have gotten off to the wrong start in more ways than one.

 

[mndriver]

You're worse than a butterfly. I was answering about OFF DUTY driving, and your talking about a border inspection. Please, stay on topic if you are going to try to belittle someone in a forum. And NO, I don't like your crest, as MP's were some of the worst "LEO's" I ever met. If that's an MP crest, not sure, either way, it's no where near me.

I'm referencing the same thing you are.

Since when is a driver required when off-duty to answer or explain their behaviors just to go to the store.

once you have determined that a driver is "off-duty" and in personal conveyance, it's pretty much game over for you. So why give him the "what for" for going to walmart instead of an Aldi's or any other store. It's none of your business at that point.

 

[Sapper]

If his truck is on fire, you'd better wake him up.

Obviously, EMERGENCIES are the exception.

 

[Osito]

Love to see that. Really would. Seems to have gotten off to the wrong start in more ways than one.

well, I have to admit you had been a little bit cross, I mean really, all we can do is ask about different scenarios and maybe how he would approach it or deal with it....to really nit pick on one subject or the other doesn't really do any good as every person is different and everyone handles the situation different.

Ok, so maybe he would overlook this or that, just because might, doesn't necessarily mean the next person won't.

asking questions, and picking a brain for answers is one thing, but to just slam just because one can, isn't really fun.

I like his answers that he gave i feel they were honest and from his perspect, whether i agree with his answers is a different thing, as I can agree with him all day long, or agree to disagree, but isn't going to make one bit of difference when approached with a senario with mr. fife...

 

[Sapper]

Welcome @Sapper

Good to have someone here from the enforcement side of trucking. if you stick around, I have a couple ideas about how use your knowledge in a productive way.

Well, I'm not going anywhere. And my intentions are to help the drivers navigate the regulations.

 

[mndriver]

well, I have to admit you had been a little bit cross, I mean really, all we can do is ask about different scenarios and maybe how he would approach it or deal with it....to really nit pick on one subject or the other doesn't really do any good as every person is different and everyone handles the situation different.

Ok, so maybe he would overlook this or that, just because might, doesn't necessarily mean the next person won't.

asking questions, and picking a brain for answers is one thing, but to just slam just because one can, isn't really fun.

I like his answers that he gave i feel they were honest and from his perspect, whether i agree with his answers is a different thing, as I can agree with him all day long, or agree to disagree, but isn't going to make one bit of difference when approached with a senario with mr. fife...

Sorry we don't share the same sentiment. His opening statement for me was an entire turn off. To me, it came across as, "I am Mr DOT, you are a driver and don't know shit". Sorry, but not the way to start off in the hornets nest in my book.

His answers are also, IMO, that the driver is ALWAYS wrong and can't do anything wrong. Look at them seriously. He doesn't like your answer, but you are legally doing something you can, so he's still going to "give him the 'what for'". Why? Because he doesn't like the store you are going to? Waa waa waa. No law was broken, leave the driver alone. Last I knew, we didn't have to have permission to go to Walmart over Aldi's.

We are both (DOT and driver's) out here trying to do a job. Neither of us truly want to have an incident where a John or Jane Q. Public is killed, hurt or injured.

But everything we do is scrutinized and wrong.

How about telling us what we are doing right for once and that they also realize that the public is the issue more than we are.
Troopers and trucking industry working together to promote safet - WSFA.com Montgomery Alabama news.

 

[Sapper]

I'm referencing the same thing you are.

Since when is a driver required when off-duty to answer or explain their behaviors just to go to the store.

once you have determined that a driver is "off-duty" and in personal conveyance, it's pretty much game over for you. So why give him the "what for" for going to walmart instead of an Aldi's or any other store. It's none of your business at that point.

No, it's not game over.

 

[mndriver]

then please explain what justification you have for telling a person that they have to go to a different store because it's closer than the one you THINK he should be going to?

 

[Sapper]

then please explain what justification you have for telling a person that they have to go to a different store because it's closer than the one you THINK he should be going to?

Where did I say "I" was going to tell them to go to a different store? I guess I missed that part, or are you putting words in my mouth? So, just so I understand, as you hammer me about something you didn't put to type, and are expecting me to know the answer. Are you asking about a driver, who decides he wants to go to a restaurant/shopping, during his run with a load? Or, are you talking about a driver with no load, that the company(or himself, if he's an O/O) has released?

 

[Duck]

Love to see that. Really would. Seems to have gotten off to the wrong start in more ways than one.

No I think you just pissed him off.

 

[mndriver]

Where did I say "I" was going to tell them to go to a different store? I guess I missed that part, or are you putting words in my mouth? So, just so I understand, as you hammer me about something you didn't put to type, and are expecting me to know the answer. Are you asking about a driver, who decides he wants to go to a restaurant/shopping, during his run with a load? Or, are you talking about a driver with no load, that the company(or himself, if he's an O/O) has released?

Right here.....

I know it does, yet it shouldn't. Those officers, IMHO, are "badge wearers", not "badge bearers".

And as to your questions, the FMCSR's answer your questions quite well in the interpretations. But as a basic rule, if the vehicle IS NOT in commerce, OR LADEN, and the company has relieved you of all responsibility, then any and all drive time is "OFF DUTY", as the CMV is now a "personal conveyance", not a CMV. There is also a portion of the FMCSR that talks about "reasonable distance" for meals and shopping. Where I live and work, that might be 50 miles or more of driving. In this situation, the driver should know the rules, and be prudent. WALMART 40 miles away, SAFEWAY 20 miles away, should be going to SAFEWAY. Again, I might give a "what for" if he was going to WALMART, but not perform any enforcement actions.

 

[Mike]

Love to see that. Really would. Seems to have gotten off to the wrong start in more ways than one.

I don't see where he has gotten off on a wrong foot at all. Seems the fact that he is an LEO immediately got your feathers ruffled.

 

[Duck]

Are you asking about a driver, who decides he wants to go to a restaurant/shopping, during his run with a load? Or, are you talking about a driver with no load, that the company(or himself, if he's an O/O) has released?

Bobtail or empty trailer I'd assume.

 

[mndriver]

I don't see where he has gotten off on a wrong foot at all. Seems the fact that he is an LEO immediately got your feathers ruffled.

I'd also like to know if he's P.O.S.T certified?