Knowledge, Knowledge, Knowledge

[Sapper]

From the "Guidance"





Can Driver A:
Cage the directly effect brake chamber and crimp the line to prevent air loss as directed and informed or authorized by the motor carrier so that they can get the truck into a safe place off the highway to replace the broken hose? Leaving 3 functioning brakes on the trailer or drives out of the 4.

I'm not a lawyer, but let's re-read what the reg says. "motor carriers and intermodal equipment providers do not have to maintain evidence". So from where I sit, sounds like the company is covered, if something goes wrong. I don't see the driver being covered though. But then again, as long as we're talking about just moving it to a safe location. I mean, we're talking about a rig blocking the flow of traffic, right? We're not talking about a quick fix, so the load can get delivered 500 miles down the road. Insurance companies and traffic accidents are a funny combination. Do a quick fix on an air brake, get into an accident down the road, and see who ends up with the bill.

 

[Duck]

Earlier, you called yourself a libertarian. Then you said this:

Now that is a good, sensible, and well articulated question, yet very broad. But I'll try to answer, without being technical. You and your employer waived them, or, parts of them if you will. You're an "Industry", that agreed to follow all the rules and regulations set forth by the FMCSR's, the laws of individual states, and local municipalities. A local PD needs a reason to pull you over when you are in your minivan with the family, right? But you driving down the road, in that semi, IS my reason. I don't need PC, nor am I required to obtain PC, to inspect you. Can the FDA go through a local butcher shop without probable cause? Can the fire department show up, and do a surprise inspection to a restaurant? Hope that helped.

Those rights aren't "waived" because a person decides to earn a living. That's ridiculous.

Look, I really don't care what over two centuries worth of crooked politicians have done to pervert the legal system.

All I really need to know is that all laws, mandates, rules, or regulations are null and void if they happen to be in conflict with the Constitution of the United States, which is the supreme law of the land, above everything else.

4th amendment text:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."​

Where does it exclude truck drivers, butcher shops, restaurant owners, etc?

It doesn't.

In fact, it also makes no mention of "probable cause" or "reasonable suspicion" being an allowable substitute for a search warrant either. It says probable cause is required to obtain a warrant.

So in fact, no LEO has the right to perform any type of search without a search warrant.

So next time you decide to perform any kind of search without either consent, or an actual warrant, be aware of the fact that you're the criminal, not the person whose rights you're violating.

 

[Sapper]

I had a Michigan bear tell me a knife with a blade longer than 3" or something was an illegal weapon. Mine was 3" so it was legal.

I still laughed in his face though & said that was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

He didn't like that.

My question is, as Michigan is an Open Carry State, what would he have done, if you had a firearm on your hip?

 

[mndriver]

I'm not a lawyer, but let's re-read what the reg says. "motor carriers and intermodal equipment providers do not have to maintain evidence". So from where I sit, sounds like the company is covered, if something goes wrong. I don't see the driver being covered though. But then again, as long as we're talking about just moving it to a safe location. I mean, we're talking about a rig blocking the flow of traffic, right? We're not talking about a quick fix, so the load can get delivered 500 miles down the road. Insurance companies and traffic accidents are a funny combination. Do a quick fix on an air brake, get into an accident down the road, and see who ends up with the bill.

Do you enjoy doing a level I inspection on an interstate shoulder with traffic coming by you at 75+ mph?


I know I don't. Last thing I would want to do is spend several hours waiting for someone else to bring parts out and not be sure I'll get off the road.




Its a real life situation for me too.

I did have a semi blow a trailer tire. Super singles are incredible. That guy left tire rubber all over 1/2 mine of road.

Left front brake chamber on the trailer broke the spring air line locking up the entire trailer brakes.


I caged that chamber, kinked the line allowing aire to build in the other three chambers and drove to the next truck stop (closest place I could find open on a Friday night.) and replaced the line.


That is the critical thinking, skill and knowledge that is being sucked out of this industry.

 

[Duck]

My question is, as Michigan is an Open Carry State, what would he have done, if you had a firearm on your hip?

No idea.

He just saw my knife clipped to the side of the ash tray and decided to give me crap about it.

He was a younger cop, probably early twenties, obviously on a power trip.

 

[Sapper]

Earlier, you called yourself a libertarian. Then you said this:


Those rights aren't "waived" because a person decides to earn a living. That's ridiculous.

Look, I really don't care what over two centuries worth of crooked politicians have done to pervert the legal system.

All I really need to know is that all laws, mandates, rules, or regulations are null and void if they happen to be in conflict with the Constitution of the United States, which is the supreme law of the land, above everything else.

4th amendment text:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."​

Where does it exclude truck drivers, butcher shops, restaurant owners, etc?

It doesn't.

In fact, it also makes no mention of "probable cause" or "reasonable suspicion" being an allowable substitute for a search warrant either. It says probable cause is required to obtain a warrant.

So in fact, no LEO has the right to perform any type of search without a search warrant.

So next time you decide to perform any kind of search without either consent, or an actual warrant, be aware of the fact that you're the criminal, not the person whose rights you're violating.

Look, I can see I'm getting nowhere with you on this, as I have explained it already. You and your company are regulated by the feds. You agreed to the rules of the game, in order to play the game, nobody is forcing you to play. You basically have three options from how I see it. 1. Get DC to legislate law or change the rules within the FMCSR's and DOT. 2. Live with the fact that an authorized person, of the government, can inspect the cab, and it's contents. Or 3. Quite your job, and find another one, that is not regulated, and regularly inspected by the government. Selling Mary K or AVON products?

 

[Sapper]

Do you enjoy doing a level I inspection on an interstate shoulder with traffic coming by you at 75+ mph?


I know I don't. Last thing I would want to do is spend several hours waiting for someone else to bring parts out and not be sure I'll get off the road.




Its a real life situation for me too.

I did have a semi blow a trailer tire. Super singles are incredible. That guy left tire rubber all over 1/2 mine of road.

Left front brake chamber on the trailer broke the spring air line locking up the entire trailer brakes.


I caged that chamber, kinked the line allowing aire to build in the other three chambers and drove to the next truck stop (closest place I could find open on a Friday night.) and replaced the line.


That is the critical thinking, skill and knowledge that is being sucked out of this industry.

Great! I'm happy for you. What is your point? Are you somehow thinking that DOT would give you a ticket or something?

 

[Blood]

First you have to tell us about the drivers who call the US Marshals on you!

If you have a question for me just come right out and ask me to my face!!

 

[Osito]

How many safety items are there in your "office"? Protection Valves, ABS function lights, low air warnings, air pressure loss test ( when we hear air escaping from a "can", or connection)so forth, so on. If an officer does a correct, and thorough level II, or level I inspection, he's in there. So again, consent is already given, when the driver started the engine.

not to really start anything but you brought it up....so lets turn the situation around....how many safety items are in your office, or in a normal working enviroment office such as restraunts, motels, offices...etc...etc....but yet a warrant is needed to search those area's.

so why would a warrant be needed to search those work spaces which have emergency equipment in it but not needed for a cab of a truck, or the truck as a whole?

 

[Sapper]

so why would a warrant be needed to search those work spaces which have emergency equipment in it but not needed for a cab of a truck, or the truck as a whole?

To my knowledge, a warrant is not needed. The local fire department does not need a warrant to go into the office, to inspect the overhead sprinklers.

 

[Sapper]

Everybody who has been, or is about to read this, please understand something. I personally, would not enter your cab. I may have used, or written "I could", meaning DOT, or authorized law enforcement in general. But I wouldn't just jump in your cab, and start looking around. I served you for 22+ years for your rights. I've had close friends die for those rights. I would no more violate your rights, than dishonor my brothers who died defending your rights.

When I use "a what for", it's not that I'm reading the driver The Riot Act, and tearing into his butt. That's me saying I'm trying to educate the driver how to stay out of a possible future citation, or violations annotated on an ASPEN report.

So for what it is worth, my intentions for being on this forum, is to help you stay out of trouble. I want you to keep your money in The A$$ National Bank. I no more want you to give any government agency money, than I want to.

We can discuss what if's, and semantics all day long. We can discuss what is, or is not a violation of your rights. And if you are a constitutionalist, or a Libertarian, then you and I are most assuredly in agreement. But I also want to discuss the reality of what is happening out there in the industry. Is it legal to Open Carry a firearm in Michigan? All day long. Would I do it, yes, and I have. But I also have been spread eagle on the ground, with LEO's pointing their firearms at me, that is the reality, right or wrong. Would I as LEO do that to you if you were Open Carrying, not today, or any day.

So please, don't confuse me with officer who writes citations just because he can, that's not me.

 

[Osito]

Everybody who has been, or is about to read this, please understand something. I personally, would not enter your cab. I may have used, or written "I could", meaning DOT, or authorized law enforcement in general. But I wouldn't just jump in your cab, and start looking around. I served you for 22+ years for your rights. I've had close friends die for those rights. I would no more violate your rights, than dishonor my brothers who died defending your rights.

When I use "a what for", it's not that I'm reading the driver The Riot Act, and tearing into his butt. That's me saying I'm trying to educate the driver how to stay out of a possible future citation, or violations annotated on an ASPEN report.

So for what it is worth, my intentions for being on this forum, is to help you stay out of trouble. I want you to keep your money in The A$$ National Bank. I no more want you to give any government agency money, than I want to.

We can discuss what if's, and semantics all day long. We can discuss what is, or is not a violation of your rights. And if you are a constitutionalist, or a Libertarian, then you and I are most assuredly in agreement. But I also want to discuss the reality of what is happening out there in the industry. Is it legal to Open Carry a firearm in Michigan? All day long. Would I do it, yes, and I have. But I also have been spread eagle on the ground, with LEO's pointing their firearms at me, that is the reality, right or wrong. Would I as LEO do that to you if you were Open Carrying, not today, or any day.

So please, don't confuse me with officer who writes citations just because he can, that's not me.

truth be told, i value what you say, and understand what you would do is different then someone else..but as far as the search thing goes...well.....

I was in a truckstop, had a student on board....met a friend of mine there, and we went in and had breakfast (student stayed in truck)....we were in there I would say a good 5 hours just sitting and bsing about this and another....just as we were all about to leave an officer called out my name....now I was concerned...(had a death in the family already and thought maybe there was another)....

I asked him what was wrong, and he replied we will talk about it outside at your truck...I said ok, well by time I got outside there were 5 patrol cars surrounding my vehicle, and I am now going wtf is going on here...

officer told me that there was suspicious activety around my truck, I said well that really seems odd since I have several witnesses that have seen me sitting inside the restraunt for the past 5 hours, and i was on video, anyways he did ask if I would allow him to search the vehicle, I said sure go for it....(I knew i had nothing, and if my student did well that would be on him).

never the less they searched my vehicle, brought k-9 units the whole works you would think i was a modern day terriost almost at this point in time...after it was all said and done, he shook my hand and sorry to have bothered you...as there was nothing to be found.

well about a couple of weeks later, i get to a terminal and again this time by company they actually strip searched my whole truck went through everything, I was annoyed at this but what could I do i could have told them no but then faced being fired....so i had no choice to let them....again they found nothing....

I understand they had a job to do, but since i had nothing to hide and still don't have anything to hide, i just let them do what they do.....and for me I guess its a future, what if, i get pulled over, and they want to search that I want to know if i have any legal stand point to stand my ground, or just to bite my tongue let them do what they want to do and move on....

Never been arrested, never been jailed, so maybe its the thought of being arrested and or jailed that has me worried and therefore i just give in...

IDK, but it sounds to me by what you have posted that one really doesn't have the option, but to allow it to be done and move on....am i on point with that or am i missing something..

by the way, i never, ever, park at that truckstop again, nor will i, don't need the bs again, and avoid that ts like the plague...

 

[Sapper]

truth be told, i value what you say, and understand what you would do is different then someone else..but as far as the search thing goes...well.....

I was in a truckstop, had a student on board....met a friend of mine there, and we went in and had breakfast (student stayed in truck)....we were in there I would say a good 5 hours just sitting and bsing about this and another....just as we were all about to leave an officer called out my name....now I was concerned...(had a death in the family already and thought maybe there was another)....

I asked him what was wrong, and he replied we will talk about it outside at your truck...I said ok, well by time I got outside there were 5 patrol cars surrounding my vehicle, and I am now going wtf is going on here...

officer told me that there was suspicious activety around my truck, I said well that really seems odd since I have several witnesses that have seen me sitting inside the restraunt for the past 5 hours, and i was on video, anyways he did ask if I would allow him to search the vehicle, I said sure go for it....(I knew i had nothing, and if my student did well that would be on him).

never the less they searched my vehicle, brought k-9 units the whole works you would think i was a modern day terriost almost at this point in time...after it was all said and done, he shook my hand and sorry to have bothered you...as there was nothing to be found.

well about a couple of weeks later, i get to a terminal and again this time by company they actually strip searched my whole truck went through everything, I was annoyed at this but what could I do i could have told them no but then faced being fired....so i had no choice to let them....again they found nothing....

I understand they had a job to do, but since i had nothing to hide and still don't have anything to hide, i just let them do what they do.....and for me I guess its a future, what if, i get pulled over, and they want to search that I want to know if i have any legal stand point to stand my ground, or just to bite my tongue let them do what they want to do and move on....

Never been arrested, never been jailed, so maybe its the thought of being arrested and or jailed that has me worried and therefore i just give in...

IDK, but it sounds to me by what you have posted that one really doesn't have the option, but to allow it to be done and move on....am i on point with that or am i missing something..

by the way, i never, ever, park at that truckstop again, nor will i, don't need the bs again, and avoid that ts like the plague...

IMO, sounds more like a DEA or local law enforcement issue, than a DOT. But either way, state and federal agents are authorized to inspect cargo. At least by law within my state they are authorized.

 

[Osito]

IMO, sounds more like a DEA or local law enforcement issue, than a DOT. But either way, state and federal agents are authorized to inspect cargo. At least by law within my state they are authorized.

lmao, i had, dea, dot, feds, unmarks, dogs, was trying to figure out if swat was there other than that the only thing that was missing in all honesty was a helicopter and reporters....lmao... and I had no trailer at the time, so no cargo to check as i was bobtailed.

 

[Injun]

Selling Mary K or AVON products?

Okay, that's a bit of a cheap shot. If you've ever seen Ducky, you'd know he'd go broke trying to sell cosmetics. Foundation makeup tends to cake up in facial hair and he'd forget to take his glasses off before trying to put on mascara. ...And there's that little detail of FDA regulation of the cosmetics industry. We all know how he feels about regulation.

For the record, I'm seeing a LOT of dickish commentary from the peanut gallery and I'd close this thread and clean it up if I thought there'd be a thread left when I'm done...and there is some good information here. Y'all who've been here more than a month know police officers are not my favorite people on the planet.

BUT.

My experience with CMV cops has been they're polite, professional and not out to kill somebody for looking at them sideways, like some city or county jerk with a fat ego, little dick and too much ammunition. I can't say's I blame the DOT guys for getting a little jaded, dealing with fat, smelly, grouchy truck drivers all the time. Yet, they manage to maintain their professionalism...for the most part. Unless they're dealing with me. In that case, it's difficult for them to keep a straight face.

(shut up, @Blood)

Let's try to temper the tone of the commentary a bit. Discussions can be had without being argumentative.


So.. Question for the LEO dude.
What is the deal with medical cards? We were supposed to not have to carry them as of January 2014 (then extended to January 2015) because of the DMV registry thing, yet CVSA is hitting up medical cards this year. If the time on that has been extended again, why haven't any official notifications gone out?

It's all so confusing!

 

[Sapper]

So.. Question for the LEO dude.
What is the deal with medical cards? We were supposed to not have to carry them as of January 2014 (then extended to January 2015) because of the DMV registry thing, yet CVSA is hitting up medical cards this year. If the time on that has been extended again, why haven't any official notifications gone out?

It's all so confusing!

Driver's are no longer required to carry them. In fact, they are not required to present them during an inspection, as we are basing our enforcement on CDLIS or NLETS returns. Having said that, I'm advising all driver's to continue to carry them, just in case. I'm also advising them to contact their DMV, and verify that their information is in the system. INSPECTION BULLETIN 2015-03 is our guidance for what to do if.......... And on page 2, last sentence of that bulletin is fairly blunt about what happens when the CDl is downgraded, and the driver still has his/her med cert.

Haven't gotten any guidance about CVSA effort you have posted on the home page, but I imagine that based upon the IB, we will be pulling in the driver's, and just running their CDL's through CDLIS or NLETS

 

[mndriver]

Great! I'm happy for you. What is your point? Are you somehow thinking that DOT would give you a ticket or something?

No, I want to know what a DOT officers position would have been had I gotten a level 1. It's happened in the past, I can see it happening again in the future and having an officer just say, "eh, sorry, OOS." You won the (Name your state) lottery. Only you owe US $15,000.

 

[JunkYardDog5958]

Driver's are no longer required to carry them. In fact, they are not required to present them during an inspection, as we are basing our enforcement on CDLIS or NLETS returns. Having said that, I'm advising all driver's to continue to carry them, just in case. I'm also advising them to contact their DMV, and verify that their information is in the system. INSPECTION BULLETIN 2015-03 is our guidance for what to do if.......... And on page 2, last sentence of that bulletin is fairly blunt about what happens when the CDl is downgraded, and the driver still has his/her med cert.

Haven't gotten any guidance about CVSA effort you have posted on the home page, but I imagine that based upon the IB, we will be pulling in the driver's, and just running their CDL's through CDLIS or NLETS

Mine is always with me. However without my SPE my physical is only good for fire starter

 

[Injun]

Driver's are no longer required to carry them. In fact, they are not required to present them during an inspection, as we are basing our enforcement on CDLIS or NLETS returns. Having said that, I'm advising all driver's to continue to carry them, just in case. I'm also advising them to contact their DMV, and verify that their information is in the system. INSPECTION BULLETIN 2015-03 is our guidance for what to do if.......... And on page 2, last sentence of that bulletin is fairly blunt about what happens when the CDl is downgraded, and the driver still has his/her med cert.

Haven't gotten any guidance about CVSA effort you have posted on the home page, but I imagine that based upon the IB, we will be pulling in the driver's, and just running their CDL's through CDLIS or NLETS

I'm basing my question from this article:

CVSA Roadcheck 2015 set for June 2-4; don't forget your medical card | The Truckers Forum

This year CVSA specifically noted it would be checking medical certificates on the roadside.

And a few weeks ago, a Washington DOT guy specifically asked for my medical card at a roadside level 2.

 

[mndriver]

I'm basing my question from this article:

CVSA Roadcheck 2015 set for June 2-4; don't forget your medical card | The Truckers Forum



And a few weeks ago, a Washington DOT guy specifically asked for my medical card at a roadside level 2.

left hand not aware of what the right hand is doing?


I saw that and was like...