Confirmed: E-logs suck

[Duck]

Seeking the privilege is not a crime. And ensuring compliance with existing HOS regulations is no more a 4th am violation than a log book. They are both calling for exactly the same information. People have become comfortable about lying in a log book, but there should be no difference between what is written in pen (or pencil) and what is recorded electronically.

You just don't get it, do you? Using electronic monitoring to track your actions instead of trusting you to log it honestly, is no different than if they wanted to stick some kind of monitoring device in everybody's pants to make sure they're not committing rape. It's not about monitoring people with a history of violations. It's about monitoring EVERYONE who just MIGHT POSSIBLY break the law. It's nothing more than, or less than, Orwell's 1984. And defending it simply because it only applies to those of us who "choose" to drive a truck is an invalid argument. I did not "agree to" any kind of electronic logging of HOS when I got my CDL. The only form of EOBR that was in use at the time I got my CDL was Werner's system. We had a Werner recruiter come to the CDL school and we literally laughed at him when he explained the "paperless logs" system and he got angry & left the room. Not a single one of us in that class applied at Werner.

 

[Tazz]

Oh I do get it. People want their coloring books to be flexible.

Besides your current argument descry your previous "Well they just bully the ones they caught violating". Those people were caught in violation, yet you still say they should not have them. Yeah I get you do not think anyone should know if your in compliance. Yours is not the prevailing thought on that.

 

[Duck]

Oh I do get it. People want their coloring books to be flexible.

There you go with the "you only oppose it because you want to be able to violate the law" rationale.

Ok, ... so why do you oppose having the NSA listening in on your phone conversations & reading your e-mails if you're not planning a terrorist attack?

 

[Tazz]

Because those are conducted (or can be) in an arena I have an expectation of privacy. A phone call made from my house, or a private email to my brother has that expectation because it is outside the public realm, and requires a search warrant(or should ) to be viewed.

A device that does nothing more or less than monitor the movements and use of a commercial vehicle does not violate that expectation because there is none. By regulation your required to report all of the information an EOBR or ELOG, the only difference between them and a paper book is the difficulty in compromising that info.

You are not tracked outside that use. Go park the truck and go sightseeing for the day, hell it has no clue what I am doing right now because it is not monitoring me unless I go to my truck, fire it up, and go somewhere.

 

[Tim]

Some companies don't let their drivers edit ANYTHING though. And eventually the feds will make it so nobody can.

I cant edit anything............

 

[Duck]

I'm done arguing with you Tazz. Your defense of Big Government sticking it's nose in our business is sickening.

 

[Duck]

I cant edit anything............

 

[Tazz]

Now now I am all for eliminating Government when and where ever possible. Give me the better alternative for roads and I'll help lead the charge.

 

[Tim]

Maybe I worded that wrong.......I don't edit anything.

 

[Duck]

Now now I am all for eliminating Government when and where ever possible. Give me the better alternative for roads and I'll help lead the charge.

A better alternative for roads? What are you talking about? Funding the roads is a different topic entirely.

Replacing paper logs with electronic ones doesn't address or fix any problems. It just causes problems where there didn't use to be any before.

Drivers going a short distance to a "safe haven" isn't a problem for anybody. And drivers running non-stop coast-to-coast & popping pills is already a thing of the past.

 

[Tazz]

It fixes the eraser that hides those trips to safe haven. And maybe exposes a serious flaw in the HOS. Though I would counter 99% of the time it is the driver that allows those situations to arise by lacking testicular fortitude to tell shippers customers receivers and companies "I will not be forced into violation" like they should.

No I do not care about if they keep their job. I will not work for a carrier that does not back me, I would recommend others take the same approach in dealing with companies.

 

[Duck]

It fixes the eraser that hides those trips to safe haven.

Fix?

Fix isn't the word. "destroys" is the word.

"Fix" implies there's something wrong with it & it needs corrected somehow. Why in the hell would you want to destroy a guy's ability to hide trips to a safe haven if that's his only purpose for violating HOS?

 

[Tazz]

Because there are few excuses for doing it, and none of them need hidden. Why the need to conceal? I'll tell you and anyone that asks there are days I go 5 minutes over simply from traffic when I am really pushing the limits. I just make a note and move on. Hell on paper I used to log when I would go over getting home.

I had a Trooper ask why in the hell I did not fix it( it was 11.25 driving). The answer for me is very simple. If I ever have to walk into a court and defend my log entries I show exactly what I have done. There is no secrets some attorney is gonna find to make my testimony mute. I (when on paper) logged what I did and did what I logged, and would not put up with others trying to place me into serious violations. So for me the transition to QCom Elogs changed nothing.

I have never worried about the occasional 15 minutes here and there, nor do I sweat little violations now. I try to stay within the confines to the best of my ability, sometimes crap happens. I still keep an accurate record, and I do not conceal when others blow up my schedule.

 

[Tim]

Drivers going a short distance to a "safe haven" isn't a problem for anybody.

The "Safe Haven" rule ONLY apply's to carriers of live defense ordnance and explosives.

 

[Duck]

The "Safe Haven" rule ONLY apply's to carriers of live defense ordnance and explosives.

That's why the rest of us need to cook the books when we do that.

 

[texan168]

Hey Duck, I was with you right up till your last comment. The "rest" of us don't cook the books some of us such as tazz do try to run legal although the FMCSA is making this exceedingly difficult. I have to use E-logs and don't like it but don't have a choice. What troubles me is you actually think we live in a free society. Yes we have the freedom to pursue our dreams but we have more laws and bauracratic nonsense than any other country in history. There are many reasons for this that I wont get into but to think that you live in a free country went out the window long ago. If we could trust each individual to act accordingly and to rules many of the laws and rules we are stuck with would never have crossed any ones mind. Unfortunatally by your last comment you are part of the problem and one of the reasons elogs are going to be mandated.

 

[Mike]

Why do we have to give them 2 hours?

I've watched a pair of well-coordinated forklift operators load a 53 footer with bananas in 15 minutes.

Takes the liquid in my tanks a little longer to come out than that, LOL. Of course, I am including from the time I check in, til the time I have paperwork in hand to leave.

 

[Duck]

Hey Duck, I was with you right up till your last comment. The "rest" of us don't cook the books some of us such as tazz do try to run legal although the FMCSA is making this exceedingly difficult. I have to use E-logs and don't like it but don't have a choice. What troubles me is you actually think we live in a free society. Yes we have the freedom to pursue our dreams but we have more laws and bauracratic nonsense than any other country in history. There are many reasons for this that I wont get into but to think that you live in a free country went out the window long ago. If we could trust each individual to act accordingly and to rules many of the laws and rules we are stuck with would never have crossed any ones mind. Unfortunatally by your last comment you are part of the problem and one of the reasons elogs are going to be mandated.

We still live in a free society. Or at least we WOULD, .. if it wasn't for passive sheep who don't stand up to government abuses. People with a defeatist attitude are part of the problem.

Take this scenario for example. What if you run out of hours at a customer who DOES allow you to park on their property overnight, but the place happens to be in the ghetto & you can hear gunshots & see "hoods" congregating nearby, looking at your truck, etc. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is going to tell me that I have to stay there all night. I'm going to get on up out of there & go find a safer place to park & sleep. But try telling that to the log auditors who are hell-bent on collecting revenue anywhere they can find it.



One time at the Washington state POE at Spokane, a piece of shit wearing a DOT uniform was standing on the scale platform. He asked for my registration & proof of insurance. That's in my permit book, which was located in the door pocket on the passenger side. This was a wide-body Volvo. I set the brakes, took off my seat belt, got out of my seat & grabbed the permit book. Before I could even dig out the registration & insurance card, he said to park around back & bring it in. When I got in there, he gave me a citation for not having my seat belt on.

THAT'S the kind of tyrannical scumbag I am protecting myself from when I "cook the books". If that kind of cop goes through my e-log & sees a violation, he's not going to give two shits about my explanation for it, he's just going to whip out his ticket book.

And no, I'm not part of the problem. All of you passive "let the government do whatever the hell it wants" types are.

 

[Duck]

During the Vietnam war, lots of worthless, no-good hippy lowlifes openly and publicly burned their draft cards in protest.

When they mandate EOBRs, the best possible reaction would be for truck drivers to openly & publicly refuse to comply.

2 years ago I took a photo of myself with a lit cigarette in my mouth, standing under a "no smoking on rest area grounds" sign at an Iowa rest area, and e-mailed it to the Iowa governor's office with my name & address on it along with "What are you going to do about it?". Around the same time I had a cop cite me for being on a road that was 40 tons the day before, but they put up 7 ton limit signs that morning. Technically I'd violated the law but the cop wanted me to give him $500 cash or Comcheck right there in the middle of the street or they'd tow the truck. I called his bluff & he said I had 10 days to pay it. I told him I wasn't going to pay it AT ALL. I never got a court date in the mail, but what I do know is I don't have any warrants.

If people had the balls to stand up against Big Government, we wouldn't be living in this kind of police-state shit-hole of a country.

But most of today's truck drivers don't have the balls to do stuff like that.

Let me re-phrase that. Today's truck drivers are even more of a pansy-ass then the hippy flower-power anti-war pacifists of the 60's. And that's just F***ing pathetic.

When Big Government says "jump", you people need to learn to say "F*** YOU" instead of "how high?".

 

[texan168]

No sir, the problem is not me. You don't know me and whether I am passive or not. I may not agree with your statement but that does not mean I am one of those "types". I personally have never had a run in with a "tyrannical scumbag". But the government is only the problem, because the people allow it to be. Not withstanding if everyone did what was right including the "tyrannical scumbags" we wouldn't have need for any laws. Unfortunately people feel it's in there best interest to break laws so we all have these arcane rules placed on us. Such as the gentlemen that feels he doesn't have enough money so he robs someone. Or the trucker that drives over his allotted hours because he was held up at a shipper too long. Either one can cause someone to die. I am only playing devils advocate. I can't stand these rules. I have written letters to congressman and reps. to no effect. These new HOS laws have all ready caused me to quit a company that I enjoyed to move on to another company. The reason being that I drove at night and could not work six days a week due to the 1 and 5 rule on the resets. But my original position still stands people/drivers etc are the problem when they break the established rules for whatever reason. When that happens then more rules are put into effect to offset those loopholes and so on,