The "Safe Haven" Rule - What it is and what it isn't...

[troutkiller]

Wow, good thread gone bad! Would weather, as predictable or unpredictable as it is, be the only in foreseeable situation? I think traffic accidents are pretty cut and dry. But what about flat tires, hit a dear and had to clean the grill, or other unforseable mechanical malfunctions that would not have been detectable in an adequate preteip?

 

[mndriver]

Wow, good thread gone bad! Would weather, as predictable or unpredictable as it is, be the only in foreseeable situation? I think traffic accidents are pretty cut and dry. But what about flat tires, hit a dear and had to clean the grill, or other unforseable mechanical malfunctions that would not have been detectable in an adequate preteip?

"Safe Haven" as to the original post has NOTHING To do with what you are asking. It has to do where you can legally and safely park specific hazmat loads. Basically, it's to allow you time to just get off the road and that's it.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/395.1
the part YOU are talking about is referenced as "adverse conditions" or "Emergency"...

(b) Driving conditions—(1) Adverse driving conditions. Except as provided in paragraph (h)(2) of this section, a driver who encounters adverse driving conditions, as defined in § 395.2, and cannot, because of those conditions, safely complete the run within the maximum driving time permitted by §§ 395.3(a) or 395.5(a) may drive and be permitted or required to drive a commercial motor vehicle for not more than 2 additional hours beyond the maximum time allowed under §§ 395.3(a) or 395.5(a) to complete that run or to reach a place offering safety for the occupants of the commercial motor vehicle and security for the commercial motor vehicle and its cargo.
(2) Emergency conditions. In case of any emergency, a driver may complete his/her run without being in violation of the provisions of the regulations in this part, if such run reasonably could have been completed absent the emergency.

This is from the guidance.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/part/395?guidance

Question 5: How may a driver utilize the adverse driving conditions exception or the emergency conditions exception as found in §395.1(b), to preclude an hours of service violation?
Guidance:
An absolute prerequisite for any such claim must be that the trip involved is one which could normally and reasonably have been completed without a violation and that the unforeseen event occurred after the driver began the trip.
Drivers who are dispatched after the motor carrier has been notified or should have known of adverse driving conditions are not eligible for the two hours additional driving time provided for under §395.1(b), adverse driving conditions. The term “in any emergency” shall not be construed as encompassing such situations as a driver’s desire to get home, shippers’ demands, market declines, shortage of drivers, or mechanical failures.

 

[troutkiller]

Sorry, I thought that the original post mentioned adverse conditions. Also thought that original posted a list of requirements saying that they must all be met, weather and road conditions being one of those. But when I read it I think it may encompass more than just weather. I also thought the original poster started out by saying "putting this up for discussion", so I was wanting to discuss another aspect that had not yet been hit upon. Like if some jackass super trucker left some debris lose on his trailer and cost me a tire. If I spent an hour changing that tire and ended up 30 minutes short, could I go over that 30 minutes to make my delivery? Sorry if I'm off topic here

 

[mndriver]

Sorry, I thought that the original post mentioned adverse conditions. Also thought that original posted a list of requirements saying that they must all be met, weather and road conditions being one of those. But when I read it I think it may encompass more than just weather. I also thought the original poster started out by saying "putting this up for discussion", so I was wanting to discuss another aspect that had not yet been hit upon. Like if some jackass super trucker left some debris lose on his trailer and cost me a tire. If I spent an hour changing that tire and ended up 30 minutes short, could I go over that 30 minutes to make my delivery? Sorry if I'm off topic here

The term “in any emergency” shall not be construed as encompassing such situations as a driver’s desire to get home, shippers’ demands, market declines, shortage of drivers, or mechanical failures.

 

[Injun]

Sorry, I thought that the original post mentioned adverse conditions.
..........
I also thought the original poster started out by saying "putting this up for discussion", so I was wanting to
discuss another aspect that had not yet been hit upon.
.........
Sorry if I'm off topic here

You're fine.

@mndriver is just sounding a bit gruff, whether he intends to or not.

 

[mndriver]

OP laid it out very well.

He asked if that was "safe haven". It's not. The regs plainly spell it out. The guidance on it is rather clear as well.


If short and concise answers are gruff........

 

[troutkiller]

So, now that we all understand the question, lol. Would hitting an animal or debris that caused damage that needed to be fixed be considered mechanical failure or would that be an unforseable emergency situation? Guess it's arguable either way

 

[Mike]

So, now that we all understand the question, lol. Would hitting an animal or debris that caused damage that needed to be fixed be considered mechanical failure or would that be an unforseable emergency situation? Guess it's arguable either way

You should know where all the deer are and proactively swerve to avoid them before they ever run out of the woods!

Seriously, if you are talking about finishing your run with the extra hours allowed for "adverse conditions", I think you are walking a thin line by trying to use these situations to extend your day. Not saying I wouldn't do it, because I fully believe in pushing the envelope, but I might be inclined to state that is was a traffic accident rather than a collision with a deer, just in case you were questioned at a later date about it.

 

[Rigjockey]

One would look pretty foolish passing two rest areas and being an hour and a half over their hours, Then trying to claim adverse conditions at the scale.

 

[Mike]

One would look pretty foolish passing two rest areas and being an hour and a half over their hours, Then trying to claim adverse conditions at the scale.

Adverse conditions is "not" to find a place to park. It is to allow you to complete a run that you normally would have been able to complete in your typical 11 driving hours.

 

[Rigjockey]

Adverse conditions is "not" to find a place to park. It is to allow you to complete a run that you normally would have been able to complete in your typical 11 driving hours.

Then it is useless for an OTR driver that is never normally does the same run.

 

[Mike]

Then it is useless for an OTR driver that is never normally does the same run.

What does that have to do with the rule? Anybody can plan a trip and know how long it takes to get from point A to point B, even though many simply get in the driver seat and drive til they are almost out of hours and then start looking for a place to park.

Something comes up, there is a rule in place to allow you to finish the run. You could be on a 400 mile trip, and get hung up in a nasty accident that ties you up for hours. This rule allows you to get to your destination as long as you are still under your 14 hours.

Problem is, it is a rule that few understand because the "thing to do" for so long was to just tear out a page and rewrite history.

 

[Rigjockey]

What does that have to do with the rule? Anybody can plan a trip and know how long it takes to get from point A to point B, even though many simply get in the driver seat and drive til they are almost out of hours and then start looking for a place to park.

Something comes up, there is a rule in place to allow you to finish the run. You could be on a 400 mile trip, and get hung up in a nasty accident that ties you up for hours. This rule allows you to get to your destination as long as you are still under your 14 hours.

Problem is, it is a rule that few understand because the "thing to do" for so long was to just tear out a page and rewrite history.

Oh ok like when you get held up in traffic or what not and spend the night an hour away from your house? I don't see you using this rule on your E-logs.

 

[Mike]

Oh ok like when you get held up in traffic or what not and spend the night an hour away from your house? I don't see you using this rule on your E-logs.

Been on E-Logs for quite some time now, and have used this rule multiple times. I aint skeered

 

[Rigjockey]

Been on E-Logs for quite some time now, and have used this rule multiple times. I aint skeered

Alrighty then!

 

[troutkiller]

That's what I was thinking mike. A driver could easily fudge the book if he's close to his drop and outta hours. I know I would, that's money! But with a snitch ass elog... Interesting topic.

 

[Mike]

You want to use provisions like that very sparingly, and if you are leased to a company, gotta make sure they aren't going to disallow the use of it.

 

[Injun]

You want to use provisions like that very sparingly, and if you are leased to a company, gotta make sure they aren't going to disallow the use of it.

Is Schneider still disallowing the 8/2 split?

 

[Mike]

Is Schneider still disallowing the 8/2 split?

Their log program has always had it enabled, but they told us they don't allow it. I used it once, nobody ever yelled at me, but that is because I know how their system of checking logs works now.

to answer the question, as far as I know, they are still not allowing it. With this type of running though, I don't ever need it.

 

[Trucking Cody]

You can violate 14/70 if there is a major unexpected delay. One time there was a bad accident on MD. We were stuck stopped with motors off for 6 hours. Most of us were in violation of our 14 by the time traffic stated moving. Cops let us drive to next truck stop that was 14 miles away. They pulled over every truck that went past that truck stop guessing they were out of hours. Whether legal or not, a cop wont pull you over if you have been sitting for 6 hours stopped on the highway as long as you stop at next safe place.

This rule does not mean you can plan to be over on hours by accepting a load. If there is snow or weather in the forecast and you dont stop early enough you are also in violation. Its really only for major accidents or changes in weather that were not forcasted. In most cases a shipper can't force you to drive if your hours have expired. If they do, they are liable if you get in an accident. You can always hit your batt disconnects and say...my truck wont start. I have to stay here until my company can send someone out. (then when hours are back hit the switch and go.) If drop and hook you can always claim trailer needs repair. there is always something u can find on company trailers. But no, there is no legal rule saying you can drive off shippers property if out of hours. You can refuse to leave though. If they threaten to call the cops, most cops would escort you to some nearby parking you don't know about. Even if shipper doesnt have parking, there may be parking real close by (within one mile).