The health care system...

[rebel]

1. Socialized healthcare doesn't work, contrary to what some say.
2. Socialized healthcare costs more than your insurance policy (it's called outrageous tax brackets).
3. In order for health care reform to work, there first must be tort reform and insurance reform. Fat chance on THAT happening considering the amount of money legal firms and lawyers throw at your Congresscritters each year.

Obama's plan for socialized healthcare, along with his education spending, is going to bankrupt the country AND the taxpayer. The necessary reforms need to be accomplished before we can even hope to approach the subject of affordable health care in this country.

OK
So all we need is tort and ins. reform and problem solved.
I've heard the argument that socialized medicine doesn't work but I'm still amazed that people are too scared to even try. I just wonder how many things we have in this world are a result of people being too scared to try. Oh, well on to your suggestion.
I came up with my own tort reform a while back. It isn't what most propose because most people just want to cap lawsuits without regard to those who are killed or injured due to negligence which does in fact happen. Also is the fact that these "frivolous" lawsuits account for 2% of overall costs.
But in the interest of appeasing and eliminating those factors from the dbate here goes:
Simple solution.
I will sign a release prior to surgery absolving Dr. of liability in return for this. If something goes wrong due to negligence then myself or surviving family member gets 5 minutes alone with doctor behind closed doors with no legal repercussions either. I guarantee he'll never use his hands again if he lives. Either way, no lawyers, cops or judges involved. Fair enough?
Now what do we do for ins. reform? The only option I see is price controls on premiums and payments. Also pre-existing condition clause needs to be illegal. What else would affect the costs to become affordable? And does either solution cover the 45 million?
It looks like we're going to have some form of socialism (OMG) or anarchy or just keep on truckin with flat tires like we are now.
Better ideas?

 

[rebel]

Again, I can appreciate the fears of socialized medicine. Would't have considered it myself 20 years ago.
But other than the tired old answer of "No No No that won't work" - what else have y'all got? Ideas?
Private enterprise has been on this problem for last 100 years or so. How's that working out?

 

[Biker]

I've lived in two countries (United Kingdom and Canada) that had socialized medicine and saw first hand the flaws. On paper it's a wonderful system. In reality? Uh Uh.

 

[rebel]

So I've heard.
Never known Americans to be afraid of showing other countries how to do something and do it better.
We got plenty of "don't do that"
So.....what do we do?

 

[rebel]

A real pain in the ass, aren't I?:wtf:

 

[Biker]

Socialized health care is far too expensive. Leave it to a government agency to drive up the costs of something.

Tort reform and insurance reform would go a LONG way in reducing costs. Stop these outrageous court settlements which lead to the high cost of insurance. Some common sense would go a long way as well. The courts need to start tossing a LOT of these stupid lawsuits out as frivolous. Remember the McDonald's coffee incident? That dumb bitch should have been raked over the coals by the judge, fined, and had the case tossed unceremoniously out on its arse.

Unfortunately, a good portion of the public no longer takes responsibility for their own actions. It's always someone else's fault. High time the courts started to use some common sense and tell these folks to go cry somewhere else.

 

[rebel]

Well, like I said, throw those out and you saved 2% (not a misprint) Now what?
I kinda like my tort reform but Dr.'s and lawyers wouldn't. Then again I don't see their ideas workin.

 

[Biker]

There should be a judgement cap as well. I fail to see how a multi-million dollar judgement is going to do anything other than make the lawyers rich. The plaintiff sure as hell won't see the majority of that money!

 

[rebel]

Well, like I told an insurance guy on my brother's death, NO amount of money is worth a human life. That kinda talk just pisses me off. That's why I propose an Old Testament eye for an eye solution to eliminate the courts altogether.

Still doesn't address the 45 million uninsured or pre-existing conditions.
So...what else ya got?

 

[Mike]

How many millions of dollars are lost in hospitals each year due to people showing up at County hospitals, knowing they aren't going to pay their bill, and knowing they can't be refused medical attention?

How many Millions of dollars are literally stolen from doctors and hospitals due to lawsuits that never should have been paid? I am all for going after a truly negligent situation, but this is often not the case. Doctors and hospitals simply carry large amounts of insurance to cover these things, rather than take the time to fight it. The result? the cost is passed onto your insurance premiums.

How much money is stolen by hospitals, due to the fact that they are billing insurance companies? This one will surprise some of you. The charges that are added for things that are never done, and items that are never provided pile up really quick. We have caught this on multiple occasions after looking over the bill, notified the insurance company, got the bill adjusted which saves us money (we were on an 80/20 at the time), and on top of that, it saved the insurance company so much money that they sent us a nice little "thank you" check as well.

And the kicker. How much money and time is wasted at doctors offices due to people going to the hospital for the smallest of things, simply because they can go and pay a $20 Dollar co-pay? How bad would that runny nose really be if you were paying for the full doctor visit? This also increases our insurance costs.

All of this crap, lawsuits, and the government driving up the costs of medication is what results in the high cost of healthcare and causing us to pay insurance rates of well over $500/month, closer to $1000 if you are insuring a family and don't have an employer paying part of the cost for you (and they really aren't paying that for you as you might actually get a bigger paycheck if it wasn't for their contributions to your healthcare).

Now, you want to totally mess this up even worse and bring in socialized healthcare? Yet another way to let the Government control you? Can't wait to see the increase in disability checks being written by the goverment once people start looking for things to be wrong with them just so they don't have to work. Won't be that hard to do since the Goverment is paying their doctors bill with my freaking tax money.

 

[rebel]

All excellent points, Bull.
So how is the present system going to fix it and make it work?
That's the $100 billion question.
Answers? (besides no no no that won't work)

 

[2xR]

Another thing that truly escalates the cost of health-care is the price we pay for technology, cutting edge pharmaceuticals, and, the research & development of both. Compared to just 50 years ago there have been giant, and very expensive leaps made in the practice of medicine.

A direct result of this has been the significant increase in the lifespan of us humans. That may be a good thing, or not. The subject would be excellent fodder for another discussion. The prolonged lifespan means we're here much longer than we were built to be functional, meaning once a person lives beyond the ability to procreate and spread a little DNA, your true function is complete. I'm rambling.... If we remain alive past the point of good health, we cost the system. If many of us do this, we cost the system, a lot.

We don't live forever and when we quit trying to, health-care cost may decrease.

 

[rebel]

How bout we just call it what it is - drug dealin.
Again good point.
Solution? (other than just die already)
Not trying to live forever. What are we going to do with 0-60 year olds?

 

[Mike]

All excellent points, Bull.
So how is the present system going to fix it and make it work?
That's the $100 billion question.
Answers? (besides no no no that won't work)

I didn't say anywhere in this thread that this current system will work.

I want all the things I have mentioned to be addressed.

When I go to the doctor, and he prescribes me some medication, I want the ability to buy it from whoever I want, and if the suppliers in this Country can compete with Canada or Mexico, I want to be able to order it online from them.

I want to go to the doctor and pay "my bill". I don't want my tax money funding other people's bills. If I have a family member or a friend that needs help, it is up to the family and friends to help them, at their own discretion.

I don't need the hundreds of thousands of insurance company employees all getting rich off of my premiums, and further driving up the cost. Let me go to the doctor and pay my own bill.

Get everybody's hands out of the medical system other than the doctors and the staffs required to run hospitals and doctors offices, and the costs would be extremely lower. All of this, without the Governments hands being in it at all, the way it should be.

 

[rebel]

I am aware that you did not say it worked. I'm slow, not stupid. LOL
Just trying to solicit what will work.
From your answer it seems to suggest that we eliminate insurance plans for health.
Interesting idea - it could work.
That's the way it was 130 years ago.
ok, how many in favor of outlawing health insurance?
Hey, I'm not scared of trying something - just tired of hearing no no no that won't work.

 

[2xR]

Solution? (other than just die already)
Not trying to live forever. What are we going to do with 0-60 year olds?

Maybe that is the magic bullet, "just die already." Why is that such an awful idea? It's gonna' happen anyway.

How does it become my financial burden to fund the health-care needed to keep anyone alive past the time that they were scheduled to get sick and die? It becomes my burden if: a.) I choose to help in a charitable fashion, or, b.) I choose to assume some of the burden by partaking in insurance program that spreads the risks among a large group of people, thus also insuring that my own health-care has funding, or, c.) the government confiscates a portion of the proceeds derived from my labors to also fund a insurance scheme in which not all of the participants are required to contribute their share.

When the voluntary aspects are removed from any health-care proposals, I immediately give it a thumbs down, no thank you, no sale.

Health-care is not a right. The Federal Government should never go there. End of subject.

 

[rebel]

I wasn't trying to be a smartass Bull, it comes naturally! LOL
Seriously, that could work. Outlaw health ins.
If I can go to the Dr. for $20 - who needs ins?

 

[rebel]

Maybe that is the magic bullet, "just die already." Why is that such an awful idea? It's gonna' happen anyway.

How does it become my financial burden to fund the health-care needed to keep anyone alive past the time that they were scheduled to get sick and die? It becomes my burden if: a.) I choose to help in a charitable fashion, or, b.) I choose to assume some of the burden by partaking in insurance program that spreads the risks among a large group of people, thus also insuring that my own health-care has funding, or, c.) the government confiscates a portion of the proceeds derived from my labors to also fund a insurance scheme in which not all of the participants are required to contribute their share.

When the voluntary aspects are removed from any health-care proposals, I immediately give it a thumbs down, no thank you, no sale.

Health-care is not a right. The Federal Government should never go there. End of subject.

Oh hell, 2xR has spoken. End of subject.

 

[2xR]

Oh hell, 2xR has spoken. End of subject.

Actually, the Constitution, by not saying it, said it. And, that should be the end of the subject.

 

[rebel]

Touchy today?
Just trying to fix a big problem affecting us all - pardon me.
If all the free enterprise people are OK with it then I'll push for elimination of healthcare policies. It just won't work if we allow some to exist - that's what we got now.
Bull did make sense - everybody out except patient and Dr.
I agree the constitution is silent on this. And that may be where the answer lies.
I will use a little 1st Amd, though and ask "All in favor of outlawing health ins.?"