Extending Oil Drain Intervals: What is your experience?

[Mike]

I understand. The problem is that it's impossible to put accurate numbers toward the likelihood and subsequent cost of premature oil related failure to make the analysis complete.

If the oil is testing good and clean, though, where is the likelihood of premature failure from the oil? Oil doesn't typically go bad, it gets dirty, loses base, etc.. What we use and dump out of our engines will be cleaned and used again and again and again.

 

[Electric Chicken]

If the oil is testing good and clean, though, where is the likelihood of premature failure from the oil? Oil doesn't typically go bad, it gets dirty, loses base, etc.. What we use and dump out of our engines will be cleaned and used again and again and again.

Cleaned and new additives...err..added. It's useless in your truck until it gets rejuvenated.


Just because it's clean doesn't mean it's lubricating. Unless the test tells you how much of its original chemistry is left.

 

[Mike]

Cleaned and new additives...err..added. It's useless in your truck until it gets rejuvenated.

With good bypass filtration, and an properly functioning engine, the oil will still be really clean when you sample it. At 25K, it's probably cleaner and oil that isn't being ran through bypass filtration at 3k.

As for megas vs. small companies, I think lots can be learned from the megas. That, and through real world experience from people doing some of these things that we assume can't work.

With a well running engine, it's usually the base that is the reason the oil ends up being dumped. Even then, you can spin on a filter that has the base in it, but most choose to just dump the oil at that point.

 

[Electric Chicken]

With good bypass filtration, and an properly functioning engine, the oil will still be really clean when you sample it. At 25K, it's probably cleaner and oil that isn't being ran through bypass filtration at 3k.

As for megas vs. small companies, I think lots can be learned from the megas. That, and through real world experience from people doing some of these things that we assume can't work.

With a well running engine, it's usually the base that is the reason the oil ends up being dumped. Even then, you can spin on a filter that has the base in it, but most choose to just dump the oil at that point.

Megas don't replace shocks unless they see them actively leaking and it causes driver fatigue and injury.

Yes, let's copy the megas.

 

[Mike]

Megas don't replace shocks unless they see them actively leaking and it causes driver fatigue and injury.

Yes, let's copy the megas.

I didn’t say everything, or anything close to copying them.

 

[Electric Chicken]

I'm pissed right now because I have to go out for my shoulder AGAIN because I'm on clapped out truck #2 that they refuse to maintain, and it's destroyed me physically and emotionally.

So excuse me for my f*ck megas attitude right now. The thought of them having the capacity to do anything the right way grates on me. They consider *everything* disposable.

 

[Sinister]

Doesn't the oil lose viscosity after that long?

 

[ironpony]

Just because it's clean doesn't mean it's lubricating.

Did that really come out of your brain?

Unless the test tells you how much of its original chemistry is left.

Have you ever investigated what a full service oil sample (not a BS benchtop test at Joe's Oil Change Emporium) provides in the way of analysis?

Yes, the base and other additives are tested, as well as wear metals.

Doesn't the oil lose viscosity after that long?

Viscosity is a common test parameter. Modern lubricating oils rarely break down

Cleaned and new additives...err..added. It's useless in your truck until it gets rejuvenated.

Adding a fresh gallon is enough to refresh the additive package.

 

[Mike]

Doesn't the oil lose viscosity after that long?

Shouldn't. That is one of the things that is checked in an oil sample. Fuel dilution is a big contributor to viscosity dropping, and something that needs to be attended to before even considering extending oil drains.

 

[ironpony]

Shouldn't. That is one of the things that is checked in an oil sample. Fuel dilution is a big contributor to viscosity dropping, and something that needs to be attended to before even considering extending oil drains.

Unless you're running an antique like the Chickin, that isn't going to be a problem. Fuel dilution is something that's tested for in a full service sample report.

 

[Mike]

Unless you're running an antique like the Chickin, that isn't going to be a problem. Fuel dilution is something that's tested for in a full service sample report.

You just said what you quoted me saying, LOL. Outside of the trolling of EC.

 

[Oxbow]

With good bypass filtration, and an properly functioning engine, the oil will still be really clean when you sample it. At 25K, it's probably cleaner and oil that isn't being ran through bypass filtration at 3k.

As for megas vs. small companies, I think lots can be learned from the megas. That, and through real world experience from people doing some of these things that we assume can't work.

With a well running engine, it's usually the base that is the reason the oil ends up being dumped. Even then, you can spin on a filter that has the base in it, but most choose to just dump the oil at that point.

I run older engines. When I was OTR back in the 80s my engines wouldn't burn a drop of oil until I hit 10k miles on an oil change. Between 10k and 12k I would burn a gallon just like clockwork. Now I know that oil has come a long way as has engine technology, but thinking about the advent of egr it is arguable that soot, nox, etc is reintroduced into the engine that used to go out the stack. The introduction of full synthetic (which we use in every engine) should allow less breakdown of the oil, and better filtration can help to remove contaminates, but still the lubricating properties may not diminish but contaminants must play a part in engine wear.

Admitedly I am not well versed in oil technology, and we sample oil from all compartments of our equipment to assess the likelihood of component failure, but the old fart that I am feels that clean new oil results in a cleaner engine.

 

[Mike]

but the old fart that I am feels that clean new oil results in a cleaner engine.

That is totally correct. Can't get any cleaner than new.

 

[ironpony]

The introduction of full synthetic (which we use in every engine) should allow less breakdown of the oil, and better filtration can help to remove contaminates, but still the lubricating properties may not diminish but contaminants must play a part in engine wear.

Admitedly I am not well versed in oil technology, and we sample oil from all compartments of our equipment to assess the likelihood of component failure, but the old fart that I am feels that clean new oil results in a cleaner engine.

I used an EcoPure bypass filter on my last truck. I changed my filters on the recommended schedule at 50k miles, but alternated the engine oil and bypass filters ever 25k miles. I pulled an oil sample everytime I changed a filter. Soot remained very low - except when I had an injector on the way out. The rise in soot was my first indication on that.

Thats the point if doing comprehensive oil analysis. Either you keep up with the entire program, or keep throwing out relatively clean oil.

That is totally correct. Can't get any cleaner than new.

The stuff always looks black to me. I'd pull the pil samples on a regular program if I were you, dven if you don't do extended drains.

 

[ironpony]

You just said what you quoted me saying, LOL. Outside of the trolling of EC.

I enjoy trollin' Chickin... he gets me back for it. Thats called "sport" around here.

With a modern engine, fuel dilution shouldn't be a problem... unless you have a mechanical problem looming.

 

[Electric Chicken]

I enjoy trollin' Chickin... he gets me back for it. Thats called "sport" around here.

With a modern engine, fuel dilution shouldn't be a problem... unless you have a mechanical problem looming.

I was actually being serious because I've never had an oil analysis done on anything in my life.

I always thought they only told you how much metal of each type your engine is wearing and putting into the oil. IOW basically just telling you how bad your rings, cylinder walls, crankshaft, etc are wearing.

 

[Humble pie]

How much money will this realistically save you? I buy rotella for 13 bucks a gallon at Napa. It’s generally always on sale. I buy 12 gallons so it’s 150 bucks.

You still have to change the filters, plus the extra filter, plus send off and pay for the sample. So in the end you save what? 75 or a 100 bucks times 5 oil changes a year? Then you have to buy the bypass system and have it installed. I don’t see where it’s worth the headache.

Those old luberfiner chrome spinners do look cool as hell though.

 

[mndriver]

Do three oil changes a year. $280 each. Includes the cost of a $11 oil sample kit to send to cat sos program.

this would save me two. So $560 annual savings.

over 5 years, a $2800 savings.

while putting at risk a $20,000+ engine. Likely a camshaft still the least in this instance due to soot loading. Even that’s a $3500ish job. Can I do it? Yes, I’d just rather let someone with greater experience do it.

To me it’s just reasonable to spend the money on oil changes for cheap insurance.

 

[ironpony]

I was actually being serious because I've never had an oil analysis done on anything in my life.

I always thought they only told you how much metal of each type your engine is wearing and putting into the oil. IOW basically just telling you how bad your rings, cylinder walls, crankshaft, etc are wearing.

A comprehensive analysis includes all of that, door, fuel dilution, silica, water, glycol, base additives, plus a lot more. Maybe 50ish items...

How much money will this realistically save you? I buy rotella for 13 bucks a gallon at Napa. It’s generally always on sale. I buy 12 gallons so it’s 150 bucks.

You still have to change the filters, plus the extra filter, plus send off and pay for the sample. So in the end you save what? 75 or a 100 bucks times 5 oil changes a year? Then you have to buy the bypass system and have it installed. I don’t see where it’s worth the headache.

Those old luberfiner chrome spinners do look cool as hell though.

Depends on how you go about doing your PMs. A guy doing 25k mile drains and spending $400 at the truck stop would save more than a guy buying a drum of oil and doing his own PMs.

 

[Humble pie]

A comprehensive analysis includes all of that, door, fuel dilution, silica, water, glycol, base additives, plus a lot more. Maybe 50ish items...



Depends on how you go about doing your PMs. A guy doing 25k mile drains and spending $400 at the truck stop would save more than a guy buying a drum of oil and doing his own PMs.

You still have to grease the truck regularly and that is included in the 400. You’re still going to spend 200 just for the grease job