New EOBR Petition Thread
- Thread starter Injun
- Start date
Neither an 8 nor a 2 will reset your 14. Even if you take them both. You still have to subtract hours used since the end of the last qualifying break.
In other words... You start with a fresh 14, PTI 15 minutes, drive 6 hours, then take 2 hours off duty. At the end of your break, you will have 5/11 and 5:45/14 available. You drive another 4 hours and then fuel-post trip 15 minutes and take 8 in the sleeper. When your 8 is up, you will have 7/11 and 9:45/14 available. You PTI 30 minutes and drive 7 then take 2. When your 2 is up, you will have 4/11 and 4:30/14 available.
The ONLY thing that resets your 11 and 14 is a solid 10 off duty, in the sleeper or ANY combination of the two.
In other words... You start with a fresh 14, PTI 15 minutes, drive 6 hours, then take 2 hours off duty. At the end of your break, you will have 5/11 and 5:45/14 available. You drive another 4 hours and then fuel-post trip 15 minutes and take 8 in the sleeper. When your 8 is up, you will have 7/11 and 9:45/14 available. You PTI 30 minutes and drive 7 then take 2. When your 2 is up, you will have 4/11 and 4:30/14 available.
The ONLY thing that resets your 11 and 14 is a solid 10 off duty, in the sleeper or ANY combination of the two.
....Fixed
That, is the complexity of splitting the break. If you split your break, you're resetting every time you take a break. That is one of the reasons a lot of guys never used split time. It just got too complicated, and I'm talking about the old rules, before the 14 hour clock. When the 14 hour clock came into the picture, we were dealing with watching the 11 hours, the 14 hours, and the 70 hours, any one of which could mean shut-down. Then, add in the extra complexity of split time, and it's tough to figure out if you can drive or not. It's no less complicated now, really, if you split 8 and 2.
It depends on how you look at it. If you split your break, either you're never resetting or you're always resetting. But if you split, you're resetting minus anything you used between the last two break periods. Most people I know just go for the straight 10 off. That's very bad in a way. It means you have to get everything done in 14. But now they put more mandatory breaks into the 14, which means you don't really have 14. If you're bumping a dock twice a day, you're rarely going to have 11 hours of driving available to you. The only way you could, with any regularity, is if you drop and hook.
The true split sleeper berth provision, where any block of time of at least 2 hours would stop the clock, and where any combination of two blocks adding to 10 reset the clock and the 11 hours, is the right way. The reason I'm dragging this mess out into the open is that it needs to be fixed. No matter how much time has passed since the goof-up, it's still a goof up.
When I found the two documents posted above I got closer to the source of the trouble. One thing I see is that it was congress who directed FMCSA to come up with new rules by September 30, 2005, not the court. Another thing I found out is that OOIDA petitioned the court to examine whether FMCSA did proper studies before tossing out split time. Another thing is that OOIDA was the first to petition the court. Public Citizen came in with a petition of their own, regarding the same rules, but with a different agenda. The court put them both together. Perhaps that was an inappropriate move on the part of the court.
I had a copy of Jim Johnston's petition, but that was a long time ago, and my copy is now sitting on the hard drive of a computer that no longer functions. I'll have to see if I can get another copy. I'd also like to have copies of the documents where the court threw Public Citizen's petition and OOIDA's petition together, and where the court denied OOIDA's petition.
The tossing of the split sleeper berth provision (the real version-not the lite version) was the worst butchery of HOS regulations that was ever done. They call it crafting. "Crafting", like the three stooges going under the hood of a car, "What's this do?" "I dunno!" "Toss it out, then!"
You have that correct. You're one of the few people I know who knows how to use the split break. I always used it. It became more complicated with the advent of the 14 hour clock, but I still used it. The difference is that I used it with blocks of 2/8; 3/7; 4/6; 5/5; etc... Much better that way... much, much, better.
I know why cabovers are stilled used in europe and I don't think it has any bearing on anything I said.
So you think they should uproot ancient cites and historical monuments just so somebody can drive their peterbilt down the road? Actually, roads in Germany since about 1930 are the best built roads in the world.
Tim
U.S.Constitution
Two World Wars will cause one to rebuild bigger and better.
And why are you so hell bent to rewrite USA history?
I gave Driver's Daily Log a trial and it did that also. I quit using it because it wouldn't let me split the break 8/2. The only way it would log without telling me "VIOLATION" was if I did the straight ten.
I don't think cops understand split time. I don't think they want to understand it. Sometimes I think that is also a factor in the push for EOBRs. The cops won't have to figure out anything. A machine will tell them.
R
Racer X 69
Guest
That has been fixed. It is up to date even for the new 2013 rules. I just updated mine today.
Duck
Sarcastic remark goes here
That data can be recovered if you know how to do it, or take it to a computer geek. As long as the hard drive still works. The operating system can be screwed up, that won't matter as long as the drive itself works.
I gotta figure out how to do that. I have several computers that don't work, but which have data on them that I'd like to recover.
Tim
U.S.Constitution
As @Racer X 69 said DDL has had that fixed for some time now and I use the split break often.
The inspectors on the state level may not understand how the split break works but the FMCSA guys understand it, well at least the one in Nebraska did. In fact he showed me where it would benefit me to use it from time to time.
This is from the:
MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY IMPROVEMENT ACT OF 1999
SEC. 4. PURPOSES.
The purposes of this Act are—
(1) to improve the administration of the Federal motor
carrier safety program and to establish a Federal Motor Carrier
Safety Administration in the Department of Transportation;
This is from the:
Motor Carrier Safety Act of 1984
The Act requires DOT standards that must ensure:
• commercial vehicles (trucks and buses) are operated safely;
• driver responsibilities do not impair ability to operate vehicles safely;
• physical condition of drivers is adequate to operate their vehicles safely;
• operation of trucks does not have a deleterious effect on the physical condition of drivers.
Questions:
MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY IMPROVEMENT ACT OF 1999
SEC. 4. PURPOSES.
The purposes of this Act are—
(1) to improve the administration of the Federal motor
carrier safety program and to establish a Federal Motor Carrier
Safety Administration in the Department of Transportation;
************************
This is from the:
Motor Carrier Safety Act of 1984
The Act requires DOT standards that must ensure:
• commercial vehicles (trucks and buses) are operated safely;
• driver responsibilities do not impair ability to operate vehicles safely;
• physical condition of drivers is adequate to operate their vehicles safely;
• operation of trucks does not have a deleterious effect on the physical condition of drivers.
Questions:
- Is The Motor Carrier Safety Act of 1984 still in effect?
- If so, is the FMCSA bound by the standards of The Act?
- Can the standards required by the act be construed so that the FMCSA is held liable if their rules, in and of themselves, place responsibilities upon drivers that impair their abilities to operate vehicles safely?
Here's what I have on that...
Jan. 23, 2006 – OOIDA filed a petition for review with the DC Circuit asking the court to review the agency’s changes to the sleeper berth provision, claiming the agency “did not do adequate research to justify the decisions they did make.”
Feb. 27, 2006 – A second lawsuit challenging the current regulations was filed by Public Citizen. That case – although challenging the rule very differently – was eventually combined with OOIDA’s suit by the court.
July 24, 2007 – The court tossed the provision that increased driving time to 11 hours from 10 hours and the 34-hour restart provision – on procedural, not safety, grounds. In that same decision, the court denied a petition by OOIDA asking the court to consider the impact of changes to the sleeper-berth provision, thereby removing OOIDA as a plaintiff in the pending litigation.
I sure like to have a few more of the details on how that went down. OOIDA and Public Citizen had entirely different agendas. I can't help but wonder how it was appropriate for their grievances to be lumped together in one suit, and then be split again, allowing Public Citizen to be heard and OOIDA being told to go home.
