Love’s to offer CNG to commercial trucks at Willis, Texas location

[AlexG]

Oh god... lets review a little... they are trying to make trucks run on NG? Im not goin to say its stupid, but it is unefficient.

Lets put it this way, diesel has a lot more potential energy for its weight than any other fuel of the same weight. Its dirty but super efficient... if diesel engines are making 5.5-9mpgs, with NG the fuel consumption will be(my guess) 2.1-3mpgs... diesels stoichiometric(forgot how to spell it) value is like ~17:1... where as gasoline is 14.7:1 and ethanol is like ~12:1, so you can see how you gotta add more fuel to the mix...

Now, i dont know much about diesel engine but i read a couple of books about the internal combustion engine and tuning it. Also have my share of fun with my bike's engines.

And my gues is that @Blood is right about it being a fiasco.
plus they aready have a gasolime engine that can be tuned to run on NG... easily i may add... just need the torque and mpgs.

 

[DubbleD]

They'll sell it.. the EPA will buy (get some major bennies under the table) into it...

and those of us who consume it will consume it.

P/J put a ton of money into those lime green stations we all see and are wondering when they are gonna be filled like the fuel islands are now.

What really PMO... is those richers than me have just made it that much more difficult to catch them... I may need @Tim 's help!

 

[Injun]

Lets put it this way, diesel has a lot more potential energy for its weight than any other fuel of the same weight. Its dirty but super efficient... if diesel engines are making 5.5-9mpgs, with NG the fuel consumption will be(my guess) 2.1-3mpgs... diesels stoichiometric(forgot how to spell it) value is like ~17:1... where as gasoline is 14.7:1 and ethanol is like ~12:1, so you can see how you gotta add more fuel to the mix...

Now, i dont know much about diesel engine but i read a couple of books about the internal combustion engine and tuning it. Also have my share of fun with my bike's engines.

And my gues is that @Blood is right about it being a fiasco.
plus they aready have a gasolime engine that can be tuned to run on NG... easily i may add... just need the torque and mpgs.

One gallon of LNG weighs 3.53 pounds.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_one_gallon_of_Liquid_Natural_Gas_weigh

and produces 82,644 BTU

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...71gdgF&usg=AFQjCNGg5jIJAy-XmTTMljDnLpZIw5og0w
(pdf file)


A gallon of diesel weighs appr 7.15 pounds.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_one_gallon_of_diesel_fuel_weigh

and produces 147,000 BTUs of energy.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel3.htm


You started your statement with the reference to weight. So, let's look at energy produced (in BTU) per equal weight of NG and diesel. Since natural gas is measureable in gallons only when in its liquid state, I'll go off that. It takes 2.0255 gallons of LNG to equal the weight of one gallon of diesel.

7.15 pounds of LNG will produce 167,395 BTU of energy.

By weight, natural gas, in its liquid form, outperforms diesel by 20,395 BTU.


However, after indicating you would use weight to compare these fuels, you immediately switched over to volume.

By volume, yes. Diesel nearly doubles the energy output of an equal amount of natural gas.

 

[AlexG]

One gallon of LNG weighs 3.53 pounds.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_one_gallon_of_Liquid_Natural_Gas_weigh

and produces 82,644 BTU

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http://www.prometheusenergy.com/benefits/documents/LNGQuickFacts.pdf&ei=aP79UsVpgYmiBO71gdgF&usg=AFQjCNGg5jIJAy-XmTTMljDnLpZIw5og0w
(pdf file)


A gallon of diesel weighs appr 7.15 pounds.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_one_gallon_of_diesel_fuel_weigh

and produces 147,000 BTUs of energy.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel3.htm


You started your statement with the reference to weight. So, let's look at energy produced (in BTU) per equal weight of NG and diesel. Since natural gas is measureable in gallons only when in its liquid state, I'll go off that. It takes 2.0255 gallons of LNG to equal the weight of one gallon of diesel.

7.15 pounds of LNG will produce 167,395 BTU of energy.

By weight, natural gas, in its liquid form, outperforms diesel by 20,395 BTU.


However, after indicating you would use weight to compare these fuels, you immediately switched over to volume.

By volume, yes. Diesel nearly doubles the energy output of an equal amount of natural gas.

Im a very lazy person, and i suck at explaining myself...

the thing is that when you combust ng in an engine you gotta put a lot more fuel per particles of air, unlike diesel. That was my point. I was goin by sources i read a long time ago, using the wrong words.

 

[Southern Fried]

I've been wondering for years if I can burn biodiesel in my kerosene torpedo heater in the barn & if it's safer to breathe the fumes than regular kerosene. Obviously biodiesel (and the heater) would have to be stored in the house to keep it from gelling up, ... kinda pointless unless it's fumes are significantly less toxic than fossil fuel.

When I was a kid, the pilots at the airport I grew up next to used to use Jet A in the heaters in their hangars when they were working on their planes. It was a lot more expensive than kerosene but they said it's less stinky & cleaner burning. But actually I think it was just convenience. They can drive 5 miles into town to get kerosene or they could drive 1/4 mile down the tarmac & get jet fuel from the pumps.

Hmmmm... you just reminded me of sumpthin. Tuesday afternoon I wuz at Houston to get a new Texas inspection sticker an a new driver side windshield. Whilst standing there talking to some other drivers about their various woes with the "new trucks" I noticed a couple of mechanicans siphoning fuel from a couple of trucks. "What the....", I asked. "They's getting fuel for the Torpedo Heaters. Management won't let them get it from the pumps cause it will screw up the fuel management program on the computers".

So yeah, you kin burn diesel in the heaters..... but apparently it has to be stolen an ya gotta leave all the doors in the shop wide open.

Gotta love the Eddicated Folks dontcha. Bless their little hearts.

 

[Tim]

Cummins says it has “paused” work on its 14.9-liter natural gas engine because of “uncertainty” of the demand for such power plants amid the expense of fueling stations and on-board tanks.

It will re-evaluate the engine’s future later this year, the company said in a statement on Wednesday.

The ISX15 G, announced in 2012, is a spark-ignition design similar to that of the smaller 11.9-liter ISX12 G that went into production last year.

With up to 400 horsepower, the “12G” has begun serving heavy truck customers who want to use inexpensive natural gas, but is not considered strong enough for heavy tractor-trailers operating in the mountainous West.

In October, Westport Innovations, a Cummins partner in development of natural gas technology, discontinued its 15L dual-fuel, diesel-natural gas engine due to low sales. The Cummins view of market potential for its larger engine seems to jibe with the Westport experience.

“As a result of market timing uncertainty, Cummins has paused the development of the ISX15 G natural gas engine,” the company said in the statement. “While we believe natural gas power will continue to grow in the North American truck market, the timing of the adoption of natural gas in long-haul fleets preferring 15-liter engines is uncertain.

http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel...o-market-timing-uncertainty-cummins-says.aspx

 

[Southern Fried]

1. I think we can all agree that at some point it will be necessary to utilize an alternate to fossil fuels (diesel and gasoline) as a wide-based means of powering all forms of equipment. Right now, we use them for everything from jet planes to lawnmowers because it's easiest. This makes us vulnerable to things from interrupted supply by human or nature reasons to price gouging by speculators. Kind of like overgrazing a field by putting too many cattle on it.

2. The current crop of "alternatives" (electric cars, bio-fuels, etc, etc) are just stop-gap measures because they all are based on the same fossil fuel supply. None are capiable of replacing to any degree what we currently use.

3. The main problem right now is the various governments who think that they can cure the issue by passing inane "laws" and "regulations". This is why we're getting all this half-azzed experimental crap that costs us a bundle and doesn't work.

Personally, I still think the "answer" is Hydrogen, the most common thing in the universe and which "powers" the sun. Hydrogen is not dependent on fossil fuels and has been produced by running electricity through sea water. Couple this with Fuel Cells (current technology still in early stages) and you make a huge difference.

 

[AlexG]

1. I think we can all agree that at some point it will be necessary to utilize an alternate to fossil fuels (diesel and gasoline) as a wide-based means of powering all forms of equipment. Right now, we use them for everything from jet planes to lawnmowers because it's easiest. This makes us vulnerable to things from interrupted supply by human or nature reasons to price gouging by speculators. Kind of like overgrazing a field by putting too many cattle on it.

2. The current crop of "alternatives" (electric cars, bio-fuels, etc, etc) are just stop-gap measures because they all are based on the same fossil fuel supply. None are capiable of replacing to any degree what we currently use.

3. The main problem right now is the various governments who think that they can cure the issue by passing inane "laws" and "regulations". This is why we're getting all this half-azzed experimental crap that costs us a bundle and doesn't work.

Personally, I still think the "answer" is Hydrogen, the most common thing in the universe and which "powers" the sun. Hydrogen is not dependent on fossil fuels and has been produced by running electricity through sea water. Couple this with Fuel Cells (current technology still in early stages) and you make a huge difference.

In another post some of you guys were asking for a "mega like" bottom... yeah can i get one of those for this one.
I couldn't agree more on the hydrogen.

 

[Southern Fried]

In another post some of you guys were asking for a "mega like" bottom... yeah can i get one of those for this one.
I couldn't agree more on the hydrogen.

Say what now????? WtH is a "mega like bottom"????

 

[AlexG]

Say what now????? WtH is a "mega like bottom"????

Im not sure either... i think is for when a like isnt enough

 

[Southern Fried]

Im not sure either... i think is for when a like isnt enough

Oh.... Ok.

 

[Duck]

Y'all can do math & conversions for pound vs. pound, gallon vs. gallon, BTU's per unit, ... none of that matters when Joe Six Pack is actually filling up his vehicle at the pump.

The only thing that's going to matter, and I know the government & the environmentalists couldn't give two ****s about, is fuel economy.

There's fuel efficiency, and then there's fuel economy. Basically how much it costs per mile to run that vehicle using that fuel.

If you can make an 18 wheeler that gets 100 miles per gallon, running a fuel that costs $50 a gallon, your cost is still going to be 50 cents a mile.

The ONLY reason any person with a brain would consider an alternative fuel is if it's going to be cheaper to burn.


But the people behind this push for alternative fuels don't have that goal in mind. Their goal is actually crippling the US economy because they want to make us poor & miserable as the third world countries in Africa. So you gotta watch these "alternative fuel" vehicles because if anything comes on the market that's actually going to cost less per mile to run, the government's going to find a way to f*** it up.