Inverter/Battery Charger

See RACER .....TOLD YOU SO .......WHAT ABOUT GEL BATTERIES DUCK WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THOSE

MY PROSTAR HAS 4 GEL BATTERIES THAT POWER THE AUXILIARY POWER HVAC SYSTEM

AND RUNNS OTHER THINGS LIKE FRIGE/CPAP,TV, DVD PLAYER,HOT TUBB,SAUNA,DISCO BALL

Hydroponics lights, LOL.

I don't know much at all about gel batteries, other than that my dad has one in his little Mazda Miata. There's no room under the hood for it, so they put the battery in the trunk. Because it's in the trunk, which is somewhat air-tight when the trunk lid is closed, they had to use a gel battery because a regular lead acid battery would produce explosive vapors or something.

The only thing I know about gel batteries is they're expensive and they can't take a high amp charge. If they're low and you hook up jumper cables to them, you'll fry the battery. So you can only charge them at a max of about 10-12 amps.
 
I use a Xantrex inverter / charger. Love the thing. They no longer make this one, but it is a real solid unit. It can be mounted right in the battery box, along a frame rail, engine compartment, or anywhere else. It is a totally weather proof sealed unit about the size of a Group 31 truck battery. It was designed for some harsh marine environments and built to handle the vibration and road junk on a truck. Absolutely zero radio frequency interference, probably due to the sealed enclosure that probably acts similar to a Faraday cage. I go home every weekend, and leave the truck fridge and other stuff running. I plug up the Xantrex unit to a line I run from the garage and it keeps the batteries charged up (great for winter when I leave the Espar heater running for the weekend in the truck), and for the AC stuff like the fridge, it just passes thru the AC coming in from the line.

Yep, they are pricey units, but it is one case where you get what you pay for.
 
Just started using the inverter in my truck, had to relocate the chemical suit from the sidebox so the inverter would be uncovered. it works the microwave well, works for pluggin in the laptop, Not sure how big the inverter is rated tough, never looked
 
I use a Xantrex inverter / charger. Love the thing. They no longer make this one, but it is a real solid unit. It can be mounted right in the battery box, along a frame rail, engine compartment, or anywhere else. It is a totally weather proof sealed unit about the size of a Group 31 truck battery. It was designed for some harsh marine environments and built to handle the vibration and road junk on a truck. Absolutely zero radio frequency interference, probably due to the sealed enclosure that probably acts similar to a Faraday cage. I go home every weekend, and leave the truck fridge and other stuff running. I plug up the Xantrex unit to a line I run from the garage and it keeps the batteries charged up (great for winter when I leave the Espar heater running for the weekend in the truck), and for the AC stuff like the fridge, it just passes thru the AC coming in from the line.

Yep, they are pricey units, but it is one case where you get what you pay for.

You don't mention what model you have. Do you know if they make an updated model with the same or improved capabilities?

What Espar Heater are you using? My TriPac came with the D-2 and I was thinking about upgrading to the D-4, but since I'm not in Canada and the Northern US much anymore I may rethink that. I think keep cool might just be my priority now.
 
You don't mention what model you have. Do you know if they make an updated model with the same or improved capabilities?

What Espar Heater are you using? My TriPac came with the D-2 and I was thinking about upgrading to the D-4, but since I'm not in Canada and the Northern US much anymore I may rethink that. I think keep cool might just be my priority now.

I have the D2 Espar. Yes, Xantrex has other models, but the do not have the IP1012 AL unit anymore and no updated version. It was a one time then bye-bye unit. No other unit they have can be mounted EXTERNAL. Like along a frame rail, in the batter box, whatever. This unit is totally weather proof, salt and brine proof, etc. From everything I have tried to find out, no one is making anything that comes close. If you know of a unit with the same weather proof capability that someone doesn't have to take out a second mortgage on, then please share the info.
 
The APU generates power only when it is running, otherwise, the batteries are discharging. What I am trying to find out is do you use shore power for it to charge the batteries, further, will your electrical outlets then have power?

The APU controller has a setting to monitor the battery voltage, and when the voltage get down to the set point (usually about 11 volts), the APU automatically starts up to charge the batteries, then shuts down when the maximum set point is reached (around 14 volts).
 
This unit is totally weather proof, salt and brine proof, etc.

This sounds like the inverter that Volvo offered on their trucks. It was made by Xantrex, branded as a Volvo part, and mounted next to the batteries. Very expensive to replace, like any Volvo part.

When the ones that were on the Volvo rigs that the company I run for has give up and die, they replaced them with a Xantrex unit that has a battery charger built in, but they have to be mounted in a dry location. The shop was installing them in the side box, left side, under the bunk.
 
This sounds like the inverter that Volvo offered on their trucks. It was made by Xantrex, branded as a Volvo part, and mounted next to the batteries. Very expensive to replace, like any Volvo part.

When the ones that were on the Volvo rigs that the company I run for has give up and die, they replaced them with a Xantrex unit that has a battery charger built in, but they have to be mounted in a dry location. The shop was installing them in the side box, left side, under the bunk.

Do you know what model this is? I'm still not understanding one thing. The battery charger has to have shore power, right? Once you plug it into shore power, will it provide power to your electical outlets?
 
Any inverter will shorten the life of your batteries.

Automotive/truck batteries are not designed to be used the same way as a deep cycle battery. They have lots of thin plates, providing lots of surface area between the acid and the lead. This is to deliver large amounts of power for a short period of time, for starting the engine. Then the alternator is supposed to take over and run all the accessories.

A deep cycle battery has fewer, but thicker plates. Not as much contact area with the acid, but they hold more amp hours. They're designed for powering accessories that don't draw anywhere near as much as a starter, but for long periods of time.

Using regular starting batteries to power accessories works, but it will shorten the life of the battery. They're supposed to remain fully charged all the time.

Here is a description of the three types of batteries:



Starting
(sometimes called SLI, for starting, lighting, ignition) batteries are commonly used to start and run engines. Engine starters need a very large starting current for a very short time. Starting batteries have a large number of thin plates for maximum surface area. The plates are composed of a Lead "sponge", similar in appearance to a very fine foam sponge. This gives a very large surface area, but if deep cycled, this sponge will quickly be consumed and fall to the bottom of the cells. Automotive batteries will generally fail after 30-150 deep cycles if deep cycled, while they may last for thousands of cycles in normal starting use (2-5% discharge).

Deep cycle
batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates. The major difference between a true deep cycle battery and others is that the plates are SOLID Lead plates - not sponge. This gives less surface area, thus less "instant" power like starting batteries need. Although these an be cycled down to 20% charge, the best lifespan vs cost method is to keep the average cycle at about 50% discharge.

Unfortunately, it is often impossible to tell what you are really buying in some of the discount stores or places that specialize in automotive batteries. The golf car battery is quite popular for small systems and RV's. The problem is that "golf car" refers to a size of battery case (commonly called GC-2, or T-105), not the type or construction - so the quality and construction of a golf car battery can vary considerably - ranging from the cheap off brand with thin plates up the true deep cycle brands, such as Crown, Deka, Trojan, etc. In general, you get what you pay for.

Marine
batteries are usually a "hybrid", and fall between the starting and deep-cycle batteries, though a few (Rolls-Surrette and Concorde, for example) are true deep cycle. In the hybrid, the plates may be composed of Lead sponge, but it is coarser and heavier than that used in starting batteries. It is often hard to tell what you are getting in a "marine" battery, but most are a hybrid. Starting batteries are usually rated at "CCA", or cold cranking amps, or "MCA", Marine cranking amps - the same as "CA". Any battery with the capacity shown in CA or MCA may or may not be a true deep-cycle battery. It is sometimes hard to tell, as the term deep cycle is often overused - we have even seen the term "deep cycle" used in automotive starting battery advertising. CA and MCA ratings are at 32 degrees F, while CCA is at zero degree F. Unfortunately, the only positive way to tell with some batteries is to buy one and cut it open - not much of an option.

Truck batteries are built differently than automotive batteries. They are designed to take the large starter draw that a diesel engine starter presents to the system, and also they are designed for the more extreme environment in truck use, i.e. vibration, and extremes of temperatures.

The use of an inverter is to provide AC power as needed. The setup was not intended to be used to completely draw down the batteries before recharging them, like in a deep cycle situation. So if some dimwit thinks that because he has an inverter he can plug in the toaster, refrigerator, TV, coffee pot, computer, etc, and just run the **** out of the system and everything will be OK, he is mistaken.

If a person has concern about shortening the battery life, they can always replace the truck batteries with deep cycle or marine batteries, but it is not necessary.

Another option is to add a battery isolator, and another bank of batteries dedicated to the inverter.

And like I pointed out to Terry, using an APU in combination with an inverter is really the ideal setup. You get the HVAC that the APU provides, it also keeps the batteries charged up, and the inverter provides the house current needed for the amenities that we all like to have in our trucks.

See RACER .....TOLD YOU SO .......

This is the type of response that I would expect from a 13 year old girl.
 
Do you know what model this is? I'm still not understanding one thing. The battery charger has to have shore power, right? Once you plug it into shore power, will it provide power to your electical outlets?

Yes, it has to be plugged into an outside source for the battery charger to charge the batteries.

An inverter will provide a/c power as long as there is adequate voltage in the batteries. When the battery voltage drops to a certain point, the inverter will shut down so the batteries are not depleted to the point that they will not start the truck.

But with the APU, you do not need an inverter with a charger built in. The APU will charge the batteries as it s running. The APU is connected to the truck batteries, and has an alternator.

As I said earlier, if you like spending money that you don't need to, then buy the $3000 inverter with the built in battery charger. Otherwise, get the $200 inverter I told you about, and then use the savings for something else.
 
Yes, it has to be plugged into an outside source for the battery charger to charge the batteries.

Will it power the electrical outlest plugged into the inverter?

An inverter will provide a/c power as long as there is adequate voltage in the batteries. When the battery voltage drops to a certain point, the inverter will shut down so the batteries are not depleted to the point that they will not start the truck.

OK.

But with the APU, you do not need an inverter with a charger built in. The APU will charge the batteries as it s running. The APU is connected to the truck batteries, and has an alternator.

What if you don't want to run your APU? While sitting at home, I see no need to have the APU running when I can run an extention cord to the inverter/battery charger.

As I said earlier, if you like spending money that you don't need to, then buy the $3000 inverter with the built in battery charger. Otherwise, get the $200 inverter I told you about, and then use the savings for something else.

You know this for a fact, that they cost $3,000.00?
 
Will it power the electrical outlets plugged into the inverter?

The inverter powers up the outlets.

If you have an inverter that has a built in battery charger, plugging it in to shore power only powers up the battery charger.

What if you don't want to run your APU? While sitting at home, I see no need to have the APU running when I can run an extention cord to the inverter/battery charger.

Then buy a $50 battery charger for those times.

But really, when you are at home, are you in your truck placing high demand on the electrical system, or are you in your house?

You don't need to plug the truck in when you are at home if you aren't in it using all the electrical appliances. If the batteries are in good comndition, they are not going to go dead while the rig is parked at your house for a couple days, or even after a week.

You know this for a fact, that they cost $3,000.00?

Yes, I do. And they go up from there. If you really like to spend money, you can get one that is around $5,000.
 
The inverter powers up the outlets.

If you have an inverter that has a built in battery charger, plugging it in to shore power only powers up the battery charger.

I have been reading up on the various models. One I am looking at provides "downstream" power for appliances while plugged into shore power.


Then buy a $50 battery charger for those times.

That was a thought, but I have always gone overboard in the products I buy. Can't help it. I have to have the best.

But really, when you are at home, are you in your truck placing high demand on the electrical system, or are you in your house?

You don't need to plug the truck in when you are at home if you aren't in it using all the electrical appliances. If the batteries are in good comndition, they are not going to go dead while the rig is parked at your house for a couple days, or even after a week.

That was an example. I have been in places while on the road that have shore power. Or, what if you APU isn't working, it has been known to happen. I can't help but think of these possibilities.

As with purchasing more espensive tires, you cannot caluculate your cost based on the full purchase price, but on the difference.


Yes, I do. And they go up from there. If you really like to spend money, you can get one that is around $5,000.

I have been pricing them online. The model I want is $1,300.00 to $1,600.00 brand new. I'm sure suggested retail is much higher. Take away the difference between a battery charger and an inexpensive truck stop model and I will be spending $1,000.00 on a truely superior model.

Do you know what model your company is installing? I am looking at the Xantrex PROsine 2.0. 2,000 Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger.

Thanks for your help.
 
You can get a decent battery charger for way less than $3000.

Just get one that's made in USA, and don't get it from Walmart. Make sure it's heavy too. If it feels like the only thing inside is a circuit board, it's garbage.

Hobart, Miller or Lincoln Electric or Schumacher seem to be decent, ... at least they were the last time I bought one. They might be made in Ching-Changland now, I don't know. Pretty much though, for a battery charger, the same companies that make decent reliable electric welders are the brands to go with.
 
Do you know what model your company is installing? I am looking at the Xantrex PROsine 2.0. 2,000 Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger.

Thanks for your help.

They bought the last of the "Truck" inverters from Trace (before it reinvented itself as Xantrex). Truck Series T1112-SB-C.

These are not in production anymore.

And I still think you are overselling yourself on what you really need. But it is your money, spend it as you wish.
 
Little strange that an inverter/charger would cost $3000 or thereabouts. I spent right at $1000 on Ebay for a new Xantrex inverter/charger that is also weather sealed so that it can be mounted in the battery box right along with the batteries or even on a frame rail. Mine is mounted in the battery box and it is about the same size as a typical Group 31 battery (and weighs about as much). It is nice that when I get home each week, I plug it up to AC power to make sure the batteries get a full charge and I can keep the "hotel" stuff running like the fridge, or when it gets colder, leave the Webasto interior heater running without a drain on the batteries. And since it is an enclosed, sealed unit, it gives off far less RF interference than most other inverters. Had one of these units in my previous truck and had a second one that I put in my new truck. I can take a power washer to the unit to clean it off right along with the batteries with no problems.

True, mine is not true sine wave, but that is taken care of by the line conditioner unit I got from Dell for about $70 that conditions a modified sine wave to be more like a true sine wave via capacitors for my sensitive electronics.
 
True, mine is not true sine wave, but that is taken care of by the line conditioner unit I got from Dell for about $70 that conditions a modified sine wave to be more like a true sine wave via capacitors for my sensitive electronics.

I've been running laptop chargers off of square wave inverters for years with no problems.

Just can't do that with an electric guitar amp, you'll get an obnoxious buzzing sound that you can't get rid of even with a ground wire.
 
The APU generates power only when it is running, otherwise, the batteries are discharging. What I am trying to find out is do you use shore power for it to charge the batteries, further, will your electrical outlets then have power?

Yes if you buy the correct one it will charge your batteries when plugged in to "shore power" and supply a/c to your outlets also, if you spend the big bucks you can get one that will auto start a generator or even the truck engine itself if wired correctly. And if you want to spend the really, really big bucks you can piggy back two and make 220v.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XANTREX-FRE...64?pt=US_Power_Inverters_&hash=item46100a9108
 

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