California Trucking Association says AB5 would ‘upend’ industry

[Mike]

The California Trucking Association contends that AB5 violates the Federal Aviation Administration Authorization Act, dubbed the F4A, and could force the end of the trucking industry’s owner-operator model. The solicitor general, however, in a brief filed on May 24 advised the court to deny the California Trucking Association’s petition, saying that AB5 would not have a significant impact on prices, routes or services.

The brief filed by the California Trucking Association on June 3 paints a much different picture for the Supreme Court.

Although the Supreme Court has not decided whether or not to hear the case, it asked the U.S. Solicitor General in November to weigh in on it.

In May, the solicitor general recommended that the Supreme Court deny the California Trucking Association’s petition for a hearing. The Supreme Court is not bound to the recommendation.

California Trucking Association says AB5 would ‘upend’ industry

The California Trucking Association called the solicitor general’s brief regarding its lawsuit against AB5 “head-scratchingly wrong.”

landline.media

 

[Mike]

The California Trucking Association is putting up a tough fight here, and it is a find for the entire industry, not just California. Getting closer to the Supreme Court making a decision, and if this is allowed to pass, it will spread quickly throughout the country.

 

[Rigjockey]

The California Trucking Association contends that AB5 violates the Federal Aviation Administration Authorization Act, dubbed the F4A, and could force the end of the trucking industry’s owner-operator model. The solicitor general, however, in a brief filed on May 24 advised the court to deny the California Trucking Association’s petition, saying that AB5 would not have a significant impact on prices, routes or services.

I don't think it would impact prices, routes or services.
If you are working for a company that has a mix of O/Os and company trucks the rate charged to the customer is the same no matter if an O/O is pulling the load or a company truck.
An all O/O outfit would still have to compete with other companies so, kinda the same rate.

I am not saying it is right. All I am saying is CTA's argument is pretty weak!

 

[Mike]

If you are working for a company that has a mix of O/Os and company trucks the rate charged to the customer is the same no matter if an O/O is pulling the load or a company truck.

AB5 puts an end to this. Owner Operators leased to carriers would be a thing of the past. If this passes, it would put an end to any landstar owner ops based in California. If it passes and gets adopted nationwide, it puts and end to every Landstar owner operators business out there. Same goes for every owner operator leased to every carrier in the united states. That business model will cease to exist.

 

[Electric Chicken]

AB5 puts an end to this. Owner Operators leased to carriers would be a thing of the past. If this passes, it would put an end to any landstar owner ops based in California. If it passes and gets adopted nationwide, it puts and end to every Landstar owner operators business out there. Same goes for every owner operator leased to every carrier in the united states. That business model will cease to exist.

Cool. XPO can pay me more and let me run the ELD, IFTA and plates I have laying in a box. And I can peel their stupid decals off.

 

[Rigjockey]

AB5 puts an end to this. Owner Operators leased to carriers would be a thing of the past. If this passes, it would put an end to any landstar owner ops based in California. If it passes and gets adopted nationwide, it puts and end to every Landstar owner operators business out there. Same goes for every owner operator leased to every carrier in the united states. That business model will cease to exist.

I understand all of that and never debated any of that.
The part I challenged was that AB5 would have a significant impact on prices.
You chose to ignore that part of my post.

 

[Mike]

I understand all of that and never debated any of that.
The part I challenged was that AB5 would have a significant impact on prices.
You chose to ignore that part of my post.

Didn't ignore anything. It's this very change that I think will impact the rates in the trucking industry.

The NLRB is working on this as well at the national level, looking to change the game on what determines independent contractor status. The rumor is that they want to virtually copy California's AB5.

what the Supreme Court chooses to do (or possibly not do) could result in a major disruption to this industry.

Every effort to push small businesses out of this industry has failed.

This effort shuts down every small trucking business overnight. Only ones remaining will be single person business with their authority. Anything larger will be immediately reduced to one person.

the big carriers will quickly take up the slack by buying out all the owner operators who don't have authority and bringing in as many as possible as company drivers.

From there, the squeeze will be on to try to starve out the remaining independents via low rates, and that effort will begin immediately in order to prevent the independents from figuring out a way to survive this.

Then, if they are successful, rates will begin to push back up. Basically, the walmart effect. Drop the prices til the competition is eliminated.

That's what I see happening if this passes through.

 

[Mike]

I understand all of that and never debated any of that.
The part I challenged was that AB5 would have a significant impact on prices.
You chose to ignore that part of my post.

Didn't ignore anything. It's this very change that I think will impact the rates in the trucking industry.

The NLRB is working on this as well at the national level, looking to change the game on what determines independent contractor status. The rumor is that they want to virtually copy California's AB5.

what the Supreme Court chooses to do (or possibly not do) could result in a major disruption to this industry.

Every effort to push small businesses out of this industry has failed.

This effort shuts down every small trucking business overnight. Only ones remaining will be single person business with their authority. Anything larger will be immediately reduced to one person.

the big carriers will quickly take up the slack by buying out all the owner operators who don't have authority and bringing in as many as possible as company drivers.

From there, the squeeze will be on to try to starve out the remaining independents via low rates, and that effort will begin immediately in order to prevent the independents from figuring out a way to survive this.

Then, if they are successful, rates will begin to push back up. Basically, the walmart effect. Drop the prices til the competition is eliminated.

That's what I see happening if this passes through.

 

[Rigjockey]

Didn't ignore anything. It's this very change that I think will impact the rates in the trucking industry.

The NLRB is working on this as well at the national level, looking to change the game on what determines independent contractor status. The rumor is that they want to virtually copy California's AB5.

what the Supreme Court chooses to do (or possibly not do) could result in a major disruption to this industry.

Every effort to push small businesses out of this industry has failed.

This effort shuts down every small trucking business overnight. Only ones remaining will be single person business with their authority. Anything larger will be immediately reduced to one person.

the big carriers will quickly take up the slack by buying out all the owner operators who don't have authority and bringing in as many as possible as company drivers.

From there, the squeeze will be on to try to starve out the remaining independents via low rates, and that effort will begin immediately in order to prevent the independents from figuring out a way to survive this.

Then, if they are successful, rates will begin to push back up. Basically, the walmart effect. Drop the prices til the competition is eliminated.

That's what I see happening if this passes through.

Ok now I understand where you are coming from. That makes sense.

 

[Mike]

Ok now I understand where you are coming from. That makes sense.

Independent people have a way of standing up to government BS and the government is always looking for ways to eliminate independent people. Makes us easier to control. They basically killed the independent farmer and now have the big farms dependent on government subsidy to stay afloat. Prices of everything are virtually government controlled in this sector. This is what they want the trucking industry to become, and they have failed at every attempt.

 

[Rigjockey]

Independent people have a way of standing up to government BS and the government is always looking for ways to eliminate independent people. Makes us easier to control.

I can agree. I got into trucking in the 90's and since then they (Government) have been trying to eliminate the smaller players.
Mega fleets get heard ad smaller fleets are not heard. So many regs that have come into play since I started have been from the influence and input from the larger trucking companies and organizations .

 

[Mike]

Supreme Court will be taking up AB5 tomorrow, so we could have a decision as early as Monday of next week.

 

[Mike]

Supreme Court was silent on AB5, so the injunction still stands for now. Still a small chance that something could come down this week, but doubtful. Most likely looking at October now before a decision is made.

It will really suck if this does drag out to October, because lots of people in this industry need to know where they stand for the future.

Other industries are in limbo as well, but only concerned about trucking within this community.

 

[krelithous]

I support ab5. Since it was screwing drivers into bankruptcy!!!

 

[Electric Chicken]

You're at the whim of whatever carrier you're leased to without AB5. Whatever rates they want to pay is take or leave it, whatever loads they offer is take it or leave it, and they use the fact that it's their authority to exercise company driver like control.

You're not independent at all. I literally bought myself a job and the only benefit is choosing the truck and what accessories/features/seat it has in it.

Bring on the AB5. Give me dental or give me death. If you think you own my truck more than I do, then give me my 401k and other company driver like benefits.

I have no freedom now despite taking on the risks of ownership, and I had to take a 50% salary cut for the privilege.

 

[krelithous]

You're at the whim of whatever carrier you're leased to without AB5. Whatever rates they want to pay is take or leave it, whatever loads they offer is take it or leave it, and they use the fact that it's their authority to exercise company driver like control.

You're not independent at all. I literally bought myself a job and the only benefit is choosing the truck and what accessories/features/seat it has in it.

Bring on the AB5. Give me dental or give me death. If you think you own my truck more than I do, then give me my 401k and other company driver like benefits.

I have no freedom now despite taking on the risks of ownership, and I had to take a 50% salary cut for the privilege.

You don't own the truck!!! Try taking the truck when you quit good luck. Your nothing more than a slave paying there bills. If you think about it it's a way to hold drivers hostage to the company!! So there making money off the frieght as well as the lease deal! and what they pay per mile vs a broker it's a slap in the face. The way I see it is your not an o/o unless you have your own authority truck trailer and customers you run for. No forced dispatch bs start refusing loads they will blacklist your ass

 

[Electric Chicken]

You don't own the truck!!! Try taking the truck when you quit good luck. Your nothing more than a slave paying there bills. If you think about it it's a way to hold drivers hostage to the company!! So there making money off the frieght as well as the lease deal! and what they pay per mile vs a broker it's a slap in the face. The way I see it is your not an o/o unless you have your own authority truck trailer and customers you run for. No forced dispatch bs start refusing loads they will blacklist your ass

Well I do own my truck. I can take it anywhere. But a carrier shouldn't be able to act like they own you and it when they don't.

To be fair, I don't have it as bad as some. Just this stupid safety lady and then recently them eliminating personal conveyance. Problem is when you lay over for one little thing that's their opening to keep pushing.

 

[389 Hood]

While I never used the PC feature, many of our drivers were and the bosses had to come down hard on them. In our latest Zoom meeting, it was told to us that even if we took the truck home, you were dispatched via email at home and therefore were on duty as soon as you got in the truck to go to the yard for the trailer. If you went to Walmart for some groceries while your trailer was in a truck stop and you bought a gallon of coolant for the truck, you could not consider the trip as PC, because you purposed the trip for a truck part and you were considered on duty. So, in reality, it's mostly useless crap.

I was asked why I never used the PC feature and instead used the break exception. I told them that I only operate within a 150 air mile radius of my home terminal and that I wasn't working excess hours for anyone. If you make me sit for 30 minutes due to some stupid inane rule, you might as well come get that second load yourself. Once I'm sitting, it's in my pick up going home. Some of these dudes get upset because they can't work 14 hours every day. Screw that. It's a job, not my life's passion.

 

[Electric Chicken]

While I never used the PC feature, many of our drivers were and the bosses had to come down hard on them. In our latest Zoom meeting, it was told to us that even if we took the truck home, you were dispatched via email at home and therefore were on duty as soon as you got in the truck to go to the yard for the trailer. If you went to Walmart for some groceries while your trailer was in a truck stop and you bought a gallon of coolant for the truck, you could not consider the trip as PC, because you purposed the trip for a truck part and you were considered on duty. So, in reality, it's mostly useless crap.

I was asked why I never used the PC feature and instead used the break exception. I told them that I only operate within a 150 air mile radius of my home terminal and that I wasn't working excess hours for anyone. If you make me sit for 30 minutes due to some stupid inane rule, you might as well come get that second load yourself. Once I'm sitting, it's in my pick up going home. Some of these dudes get upset because they can't work 14 hours every day. Screw that. It's a job, not my life's passion.

Yeah easy to abuse it just like yard move.

Taking it from an owner operator who commutes from the same terminal to home with it every day is assinine though.

 

[389 Hood]

I have to agree. But one thing I don't want to look out my window and see...is that truck. I used to think trucks were just the coolest thing out there. I still do like a fancy one, but I hate them more and more every day. If I had one of these, I might enjoy it all again. That was years ago though. That's a full time job right there!