The use of Personal Conveyance
- Thread starter Duck
- Start date
Tim
U.S.Constitution
Negative.
Tim
U.S.Constitution
Tim
U.S.Constitution
Correct.
According to JJ Keller, personal use must be bobtail, however it is not limited to home and terminal. What is personal conveyance?
However, in the situation you cite, you were blatantly wrong, and it sounds like you pretty well knew it. You went there to get load info, which is an obvious work reason, which makes the trip on duty driving, and 2 violations: one for logging it off duty, another for exceeding HoS.
Absolutely nothing, actually. You can drive whatever you like, if the vehicle is "not for hire" and doesn't generate revenue. If it does, and you attach a trailer to it, then DOT and FMCSA get to start regulating your butt off =(
Duck
Sarcastic remark goes here
I went there to get the courtesy car and go to the hotel. Getting load info was a "as long as I'm here" kind of thing.
mndriver
curmudgeon extraordinare
You can hook a trailer to it all you want.
It doesn't become "regulated" until you attempt to earn revenue with it.
Justify it however you want, you criminal!
THBatMan8
Well-Known Member
JJ Keller is wrong. Nothing in the regulations state you must be bobtailing to use PC. They state very clear you cannot be laden. There are times you can be unladen with an empty trailer and there are times you can be laden while bobtailing. If you bobtail to pick up a pre-loaded trailer (for example), you're laden and legally have to log that on line 3.
Duck
Sarcastic remark goes here
The actual regulation is interpreted many different ways because it's apparently not worded in precise enough legalese.
Southern Fried
Well-Known Member
Back years ago when I had a lawyer on retainer I asked him the "why" of what we call "legalese".
"Because it's so precise" was the answer.
Uh Huh
Well if it's so precise and all..... why do you need 4 full court systems to interpret what it actually says????
Stony silence.
"Because it's so precise" was the answer.
Uh Huh
Well if it's so precise and all..... why do you need 4 full court systems to interpret what it actually says????
Stony silence.
THBatMan8
Well-Known Member
People have their own definition of what laden means, and are wrong most of the time.
Southern Fried
Well-Known Member
Old "joke" told to me by my accountant:
two businessmen were having lunch together. One asks the other, "Did you ever find a new accountant?" The other answered,"I got it down to three. I brought each in separately. I asked the first one "How much is 2 plus 2? the first said 4. Second one said 4. 3rd one got up, closed the officedoor, closed the blinds, leaned over and softly asked "How much do you want it to be?"
Guess who got the job???
When I took night classes in "accounting for small business" I learned that there are at least three major "accounting systems" and 10 "acceptable" ones that are "legal".
This is exactly the problem with trying to "define" legal terms such as laden. It is also why the "Supreme Court" system gets away with the crap they do.
Legal definition usually depends on whoever is willing to pay the most; whether in money, power or influence. Us "little guys" don't offer any of that.
ironpony
Professional Pot-Stirrer
Personally I think JJ Kellar is some kind of commie conspiracy.
If I just completely emptied out my trailer, am not headed to my next loading point and I am on personal business (i.e. - heading to a truck stop for say a shower, or a Walmart on a grub run) with that empty trailer, that's unladen enough for me. I'm on personal conveyance, and I believe I can make that stick in a courtroom no matter what some facist flatfoot might think. However, you do have to be using your CMV for personal use... a move that is ultimately going to lead to a business use of the vehicle won't pass muster.
Otherwise, if there's stuff in the trailer I most likely will drop the trailer and bobtail where I need to go. That's obviously a situation where you are in a "laden" state. (That has to be one of the most stupid words I've ever encountered.)
Unless of course, I just raised the Jolly Rodger, and I'm just flat out flippin' off the law an' their grovellin' synchophantic minions.
If I just completely emptied out my trailer, am not headed to my next loading point and I am on personal business (i.e. - heading to a truck stop for say a shower, or a Walmart on a grub run) with that empty trailer, that's unladen enough for me. I'm on personal conveyance, and I believe I can make that stick in a courtroom no matter what some facist flatfoot might think. However, you do have to be using your CMV for personal use... a move that is ultimately going to lead to a business use of the vehicle won't pass muster.
Otherwise, if there's stuff in the trailer I most likely will drop the trailer and bobtail where I need to go. That's obviously a situation where you are in a "laden" state. (That has to be one of the most stupid words I've ever encountered.)
Unless of course, I just raised the Jolly Rodger, and I'm just flat out flippin' off the law an' their grovellin' synchophantic minions.
Duck
Sarcastic remark goes here
Driving an empty truck to the company's terminal for the purpose of taking the courtesy car to the hotel is personal use enough for me, regardless of the fact the truck may or may not have had mechanical issues that needed to be addressed there at the yard, (I don't remember) or the fact that my next load may or may not have been already loaded & dropped in the yard. (At the time, I would have had no way of knowing where my next load would have picked up at)
Some hard-nosed "government knows best" types (made of straw) might say that the hotel was "just an excuse" to violate HOS, so in that case I might also add that at the beginning of said use of PC, I was at a customer's yard in a small town, and they didn't have room for my truck. They didn't actually tell me to get lost, but the situation was obvious.
And if that ain't enough for the straw man, I'll repeat my earlier statement: "I have about as much respect for the laws as the imbeciles who make them" meaning that in some cases, the Jolly Roger is the most practical flag to sail under.
