That guy
Well-Known Member
......or pu
Modifications to your Equipment to Improve Fuel Mileage.
- Thread starter terrylamar
- Start date
That guy
Well-Known Member
.......or pulling light loads with a smooth van. Almost everyone I know that claims super high mileage almost always is on a dedicated route and hauls something like empty racks one way and all interstate.
terrylamar
Well-Known Member
What add ons are available for new Detroits? Very few, mufflers, tires and not much more.
That guy
Well-Known Member
Diesel Spec does fuel economy tuning for DD15's. Not sure what years.
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
Just now getting in on this. Here is some product info for anyone who wants to look at this.....
Fumoto USA makes petcock style drains that fit in place of the normal drain plug in the oil pan. I have been using them for years on farm tractors, big trucks, and my Jeep Liberty Diesel. Great product. Very inexpensive. You can find them online in a variety of places and chrome shops online like Iowa 80.
Fleet Air Filters makes some pretty darn good high flow air filters that are cleanable and reusable. Not quite like the K&N type of filter. Better.
For Detroit DDEC IV owners with waste gated turbos, give the Borg Warner 171702 turbo a look see. A very good non waste gated turbo that can be had for $600 - $700. A real top of the line version of this one is the S400SX4-75 from the AirWerks division of Borg Warner. A little higher in price... in the $800+ range. You would be hard pressed to find better turbo replacements. As good as anything that Pitts Power has and a lot less in price.
For high flow mufflers... one will find it hard to beat the Walker Megaflow's. A very high quality muffler that can be had at almost any parts outlet. 4 year warranty and is specially zinc coated at the seams to prevent corrosion damage. Can be had for around $100 or a little more. Too bad the DPF crowd can't take advantage of this.
On the oil change issue. I took a 1996 FLD with Cummins N-14 to 1.4 million without being opened up for more than the overhead doing 30,000 mile oil changes with NO bypass filter using Kendall 15w40 oil. Todays oils are far superior to anything from days gone by. I still do 30,000 mile oil changes and have 835,000 on my ISX. I do the oil samples at each oil change so that I can catch something that might be starting to happen. Oil samples should be done regularly to see patterns that are showing up. I buy my oil in bulk and do my own services.
I will be able to continue to take advantage of the various mods available in the 2013 Columbia glider I just ordered.... complete with a DDEC IV Series 60 pre-emissions engine. Had my shot with EGR in my ISX. No more emissions laden engines for me in the foreseeable future.
Fumoto USA makes petcock style drains that fit in place of the normal drain plug in the oil pan. I have been using them for years on farm tractors, big trucks, and my Jeep Liberty Diesel. Great product. Very inexpensive. You can find them online in a variety of places and chrome shops online like Iowa 80.
Fleet Air Filters makes some pretty darn good high flow air filters that are cleanable and reusable. Not quite like the K&N type of filter. Better.
For Detroit DDEC IV owners with waste gated turbos, give the Borg Warner 171702 turbo a look see. A very good non waste gated turbo that can be had for $600 - $700. A real top of the line version of this one is the S400SX4-75 from the AirWerks division of Borg Warner. A little higher in price... in the $800+ range. You would be hard pressed to find better turbo replacements. As good as anything that Pitts Power has and a lot less in price.
For high flow mufflers... one will find it hard to beat the Walker Megaflow's. A very high quality muffler that can be had at almost any parts outlet. 4 year warranty and is specially zinc coated at the seams to prevent corrosion damage. Can be had for around $100 or a little more. Too bad the DPF crowd can't take advantage of this.
On the oil change issue. I took a 1996 FLD with Cummins N-14 to 1.4 million without being opened up for more than the overhead doing 30,000 mile oil changes with NO bypass filter using Kendall 15w40 oil. Todays oils are far superior to anything from days gone by. I still do 30,000 mile oil changes and have 835,000 on my ISX. I do the oil samples at each oil change so that I can catch something that might be starting to happen. Oil samples should be done regularly to see patterns that are showing up. I buy my oil in bulk and do my own services.
I will be able to continue to take advantage of the various mods available in the 2013 Columbia glider I just ordered.... complete with a DDEC IV Series 60 pre-emissions engine. Had my shot with EGR in my ISX. No more emissions laden engines for me in the foreseeable future.
95IH9400
Well-Known Member
I wish you were on here BEFORE I spent $150+ on Pitts power's 'turbo' muffler! I do like the sound, though. But, thanks for the heads up on the turbo issue. I was going to call Pitts for their turbo, but I think I might investigate these guys, too. My truck is going back in the shop today, as I had the mechanic DOT it, and it has some problems. Mainly, one of the fuel tank strap studs is broke! And, one of my parking brake chambers is too! But, he looked at my exhaust manifold, and said it's going to have to be replaced soon, as it's getting 'sooty' in there. I had that worked on last summer, by a so called 'mechanic' (I use that term loosely with him), who put 'header wrap' around the joints of the manifold, and this winter, when it's cold out, and so was the engine, smoke poured out of the manifold! He said that since he did the overhead, it's now trying to find the 'weakest link', which now is the manifold. I'm only putting out 22-27 psi on my turbo boost gauge, and he said that I should be putting out in the mid 30's. He said that's why my fuel mileage went to crap after the overhead. He said that before, the valves were so loose, that they weren't opening all the way. Now that everything on top is 'tight', anything else that is not up to snuff can deteriorate the mpg's. We'll see what happens when he gets done.
On the oil issue, if you were able to go 30k on crap oil, then I should be able to go at least 45k on Amsoil! I was changing the Amsoil at 30k intervals, without taking samples, and changing filters at 15k. I just might change the filters again at 30k, but leave the oil in for another 15k! I might just have the mechanic put a petcock in somewhere, so it will be easier to take the samples. Thanks for the heads up on that!
John
freedhardwoods
freedhardwoods
I had an 89 Volvo with a 3406B "425" Cat turned up to about 550. It got about 6 mpg pulling a 45' flat with sidekit. Added a Fuel Preporator and it went up to 6.5. I was very happy with that.
My next truck was a '97 KW T600 with a Series 60 set at 470 hp. With no add-ons I averaged about 7 mpg pulling a 48' flat for the last 2 years I had it. That included idling summer and winter. I burned 80 gallons of fuel when I came home empty from Dallas once (800 miles). The dash readout said 12 mpg when I bob-tailed 300 miles once.
I heard some people claiming 8 or 9 mpg's from a Detroit after they were out for 2 or 3 years. Maybe some could do it, but I never did believe that was very common.
I had a Spinner II on the KW and really like how it worked.
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
No it is not very common. There is so much more that goes into making those kind of numbers. The driver has about 30% of the input on how the truck does. But it also takes the right transmission, rear end gearing, axle type, etc as well as other stuff to make the engine really show its stuff. Most engines, even without mods, will do a lot better if the entire drive train is spec'd right for the operation and the truck is driven right. And no... that doesn't mean you have to drive like grandma either.
There are real world examples of some getting in the 8's and low 9's with even the new emissions loaded engines with no modifications to stock ECM programs and such. And it is being done running at 65 mph average. Even many situations where those with very "un" aerodynamic trucks are getting solid high 7's all the time. Problem lies in that many fleets and individual buyers really don't understand truck spec'ing as well as they should. And the dealers are no help.
Unfortunately for used truck buyers, they only have choices left over by previous owners poor spec'ing. So they have to go with mods and other things to make up for the bad specs. Now, there is things that even the OEM's dropped the ball on, but most bad fuel mileage is a result of poor operation and the wrong spec's for the operation the truck is being used for. There is just no "one size fits all" solution. The type of terrain, the area of the country, the trailer and load, and a host of other things need to factored when a truck is spec'd. And a used truck buyer has to understand spec'ing as much as a new truck buyer to make sure they are getting a truck that fits their operation.
95IH9400
Well-Known Member
Yea, but here's my problem. I'm pulling rail containers, rib sided, and some are very heavy empty! The 53's are almost 20k empty! Plus, I only have a mid-roof, that is just over 11' tall. Most of the 40' containers I pull are only 12'6'' tall, so that's not too much of a problem. But, once in a while, I'll pull a 'high cube' that's 13'6'' tall. Aim that loaded trailer in a stiff wind, and my foot's in the radiator, lucky to do 55-60 on a slight grade! I know I need to get a 'wing' or something, for the taller trailers, but that will be down the road. It sounds like you guys are pulling flats. No wonder why you're getting good mpg's!
John
John
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
As one might expect, Iowa 80 has a substantial markup on most everything they sell. I buy from them on occasion if it is something I can't find easily anywhere else. Pitts Power sells good stuff. But even they can be beat on some things. Just takes a little buyer research. Some things that Pitts Power has down right and pricing is not too far out of line is their exhaust manifolds, crankshaft dampers, and crankshaft balancers.
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
Sure, John, there are some situations where there is way too much outside of the truck owner's control. Pulling tin cans is one of them. They come in so many sizes and the gaps between them and the truck are so extreme in some cases, there is just no way to overcome the aerodynamics. And, unfortunately, there is no support from the rails or equipment manufacturers to seriously find ways to make things better. Tires don't run true on many trailers and are of the style with high rolling resistance, axles are out of alignment quite often, some boxes have to be positioned out to the rear so that you could play football in the space between the truck cab and the box, etc. It is almost a no win situation. I feel your pain.
Sadly, the rates and fuel surcharges don't seem to reflect this disparity.
Sadly, the rates and fuel surcharges don't seem to reflect this disparity.
95IH9400
Well-Known Member
Yep, I heard that! I did find those turbos for sale in Amherst WI for $707.15. I haven't been able to find the other turbo you mentioned, though. I talked to my mechanic, and he said that even though my engine is an '04, with a DDEC IV, it DOES NOT have a waste gate turbo! I guess the original owner never put one on! He does have a waste gate turbo he might put on, to see what happens. He said he's put on a couple of Pitts Power's turbo's, and they go wild over 1500, 1600 rpm. I told him that's where I normally drive where 65 mph in 13th gear is 1500. I might try the turbo he's got first, to see what happens. I have to wait to get a new manifold, anyway, as he won't get it in until Tuesday. I'll let you know what happens when I drop it off!
John
Les2
Hobbie Trucker
Have a friend that had an older Detroit and regularly got 7-7.5mpg with it.
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
You can find all of the Borg Warner turbos online. I will admit, the 171702 is more for 500 hp engines. There are other models made for Detroits that are lower in hp. I found a lot of them at Ebay from regular parts places. Do a search there. There are other models like the 171701 for 470 hp engines or 169011 for 425-450 hp.
95IH9400
Well-Known Member
My mechanic has an engine on a stand in his shop, with a waste gate turbo, that only has a few hundred thousand miles on it. He says when he changes out the manifold, he'll put that turbo on, and let me try it for a week. He likes the waste gate turbos better, as he says they seem to start spooling up at a lower rpm than a non-waste gate one. If I like it, he says that the guy who owns the engine will probably sell it to me for $500, which would be the core charge with no turbo. He also told me that to buy a new one, with the waste gate, I'd be looking at $1500 from Detroit, as that is the only place he thinks I can get one from.
So, is he right? Does someone else make a waste gate turbo? And, if so, then how much are we looking at?
John
So, is he right? Does someone else make a waste gate turbo? And, if so, then how much are we looking at?
John
Racer X 69
Member
No, it isn't an art. It is skill and experience.
Setting valve lash and injectors is nothing more than using the proper tools, and the proper technique.
Racer X 69
Member
None taken.
I am in a 'Shaker Columbia now with a 60 Series Detroilet in it. It gets varied mileage, depending on how much weight I have (almost always flatbed), where I am running (Rockpile Mountains and the Cascade Range, the flat Midwest and the Eastern Seaboard), and how fast I run all day.
I have seen mileage from 4.2 to 6.9.
It is all stock.
Copperhead
Well-Known Member
Borg Warner and Garrett both make waste gate turbos for the Detroit. Truth be told, Detroit makes none of its own turbos, they are outsourced and usually Garrett brand. A new in the box waste gate turbo is usually twice the expense or more of a non waste gate version.
Now it is true, that a waste gate version will spool up earlier at lower RPM. But that is because is has a far smaller housing. The exhaust is channeled thru this smaller housing and causes the exhaust flow to speed up. Kinda like the nozzle on a garden hose. Great for P&D local delivery kinda stuff, but not so great for OTR work. That is why there is a waste gate on it, the pressure gets to approximately 30 psi in the exhaust stream and the waste gate opens and dumps excess exhaust straight to the exhaust pipe. The reason these were developed was to satisfy a broad range of uses of the engine, especially the local P&D application. But, a non waste gate turbo is better for open road kind of work. It has a much larger housing that allows a better exhaust flow, and you are using all the exhaust to generate turbo boost. You will develop higher intake boost with a non waste gate turbo using actually less fuel to get the job done. Unless you need rapid spool up and are just wanting to do jack rabbit starts at lights and pretend you are on a NHRA quarter mile track, the waste gate version is more expensive, less efficient, and cost more in fuel over the long run. If the truck is primarily used for open road work, and you are driving it right in towns and cities (i.e. not driving it like a sports car and racing from light to light), then a non waste gate turbo is a better choice.
I would bet that your mechanic, like most mechanics, likes that "press you back into your seat" kind of performance from the start and that is why he likes the waste gate version. Your mechanic does not run 80,000 lb up and down hills all day and pay for the fuel.
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