Let's Argue About Smoking in Public

[Injun]

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!!

You're buying this time. Last time I won anything, I ended up paying for it.

Better be fried in poly-unsaturated fats, or even better yet, straight lard. :licklips:

Fixed

 

[Sinister]

I'm thinking there's some confusion between the concept of "freedom" and a a desire to behave a certain way and damn everyone else type mentality.

I'm going to smoke right here and damn everyone else. I'm free to do this.

Yes...you might be free to act obnoxious like that. But what about other people's choices and freedoms?

I think helmet and seat belt laws are the smallest infringements on "freedom" I can think of. If you want to die in a firey truck wreck without a seat belt, you should be "free" to do so. Wreck a bike and have your head turn into something resembling corned beef hash? Have at it!

Those are government sanctioned infringements on freedom disguised as being for the benefit of all people.

Banning smoking in public places doesn't count among these, IMO. With not using a helmet or seat belt, you're taking risks based on choices you make.

By smoking in public, you are removing that choice for those who choose not to smoke, but wish to patronize the same business.

And allow me to be the first to post an actual link to something in this thread:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statep...taurant-business-is-up-op60n9h-161503145.html

 

[Injun]

I'm thinking there's some confusion between the concept of "freedom" and a a desire to behave a certain way and damn everyone else type mentality.

I'm going to smoke right here and damn everyone else. I'm free to do this.

Yes...you might be free to act obnoxious like that. But what about other people's choices and freedoms?

By smoking in public, you are removing that choice for those who choose not to smoke, but wish to patronize the same business.

The choice remains. You can choose to avoid those places.

If you wish to patronize a particular establishment and the owner of that establishment chooses to allow smoking in and on his private property, you can choose whether the products sold there are worth being around that smoke. If you still wish to enter the premises, you are consciously choosing to be there. Nobody is forcing you to be around cigarette smoke.

My position boils down to decisions being left to the private property owner.

That said: I find my dining experience is more pleasant in non-smoking establishments. Given the choice, I will be more likely to patronize an establishment where the OWNER has decided to disallow smoking. I will vote with my dollars, just as you have a right to do.

And yes, in case anybody missed it, I am a smoker.

 

[Tim]

As smoking ban marks second year, restaurant business is up

One little problem with that story,

Based on state tax collection data, Hanson said restaurant and tavern sales overall increased 1% in 2010 and 2% in 2011, mirroring national trends.

Now if the price of the product there selling goes up then the sales tax would also increase. And as we all know every damn thing cost more today.
Poor way on collecting data related to a smoking ban.

Conversely, the subcategory of bars and taverns saw around a 4% decrease during that time, but Hanson notes that trend has been ongoing for many years. "You can't really attribute it to the smoking ban because there's a long-term trend there," he said.

Really? If this is also Based on state tax collection data maybe people aint staying in bars longer thus sales are down.

 

[Blood]

I'm sure other smokers may have not noticed that you smoke until you lit one up, but most smokers (a generalization) noses are shot and can't smell smoke on others. Now a non smoker will sniff you out 100 yards away.

I was visiting my father-in-law once in Johnson, KS where he worked for the city.
When I got a glass of water from the tap I smelled diesel in it before I even got it up to my nose.
I asked my mother-in-law how they could stand to drink it and neither she nor my wife (both non-smokers) could smell it or taste it.

When my wife's dad got home, my mother-in-law asked him about it.
After he asked her a dozen times who put her up to mentioning it, he said he dropped a fuel jug while they were mowing around the reservoir, but that he recovered it immediately and spilled almost nothing.

He never believed that I could smell fuel in the water.
He always thought that somebody put me up to it.

There are other things like that.
Numerous times I've walked into a place that reeked of mold which nobody else could smell, but nearly made me ill.

I've smelled coolant leaks a bunch of times on other peoples vehicles.

Pheromones. :sweat:
Coupla stories about that...
for another time.

 

[Blood]

Sooner or later, it will be banned everywhere or made so costly, you will give it up.

I'll think of something.
:whistle:

 

[Blood]

...and furthermore, I have never seen a smoker take a deep drag of smoke and hold his or her breath for the purpose of exhaling it into a nonsmoker's face. That's just ridiculous.

I did that once or twice...
to a pal who wouldn't stop ****ing n moaning about me smoking. :blush:
But I didn't generally smoke around him. He just wanted me to quit.
That's been 30+ years ago and he's on dialysis three times a week now.
Nearly dead. Damn shame, he's a great person.
"Eat, drink & be merry for tomorrow you die."
You never know. :sad:



One of my fun activities use to be getting out a smoke n a lighter and just sitting there screwing with it in a situation where somebody was bitching about smoking for no reason in a place where smoking wasn't allowed.
Just sit there yakking, rolling a smoke around in one hand, a lighter in the other.
As if you'd light it if you weren't distracted. ;-)
Just sit there and pretend not to notice some crybaby is giving you the stink-eye.
Every now and then somebody will assume the responsibility of informing you that smoking is not allowed.
You just look at them like they're from another planet and say, "Yeah, I know." as if you aren't holding a smoke n a lighter.
Great fun.


We were on a cruise excursion one time with a stop in Roatan, Honduras where we had been before to a joint called Salt n Pepper.
The guy would pick you up on the pier, haul you over to his joint, feed you fresh seafood lunch and a coupla-few drinks, then bring you back. All for a really reasonable price.

So there was some obnoxious a-hole of a woman on the pier.
Bitching n griping...
****ing n moaning...
bitch, bitch, bitching about people smoking on the pier.
The friggin cow was standing 5 feet down-wind from us and all she had to do was waddle her ass 10 feet upwind and all would be well for her. BUT NOOOOOO!! She just stood there bitching to her husband about the smokers.

Guess where she was going.

After we piled into the van and drove a few miles chit-chatting between the 8 or 10 people there,
I started going on about what a great time it was and how you couldn't beat the value, and how the cuban cigars for the ride back would cost you half the price (there weren't really any cigars).

AWWW HELL!!
She was madder than a wet hen!!
BITCH, BITCH, BITCH!! All the way there.
I asked her if I could have her cigar since she didn't want it.
She said she was going to flush it down the toilet to make sure NOBODY smoked it!!
She ate her lunch and hired a cab back within 30 minutes.
The rest of us had a swell time.
eacebanana:

:crafty:

 

[Blood]

This is a false analogy. Waste smoke being breathed out and peeing on others are not Constitutional Rights. Firearms are covered in the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is covered in the Declaration of Independence which is/was the springboard for our constitution. I think that the rights of whoever OWNS the property in question to do or allow whatever he/she damn well pleases trumps your IMAGINED right to tell him/her otherwise.

AND

I think that a fourth amendment argument could be successfully made since the end result of non-compliance would result in the unreasonable (IMO) seizure of property simply for refusing to tow the gov't line.

 

[Blood]

One more thing...

Guess what.

Since I can't open a joint and do as I please,
I ain't gonna open a joint at all.
This will be repeated...
or rather NOT repeated, as it were, times thousands.

If I could do as I pleased, I'd open a smoking joint.
And smokers would congregate there.
And since the smokers (times thousands) DON'T have joints like mine to congregate,
they'll be congregating outside and smoking around the joint where you go.

Think about THAT next time you have to hold your breath and run the gauntlet through wafting smoke.

 

[Tazz]

I am a smoker. I know there is the smell of tobacco on me and around me. I cannot stand the smell of stale smoke. I can admit It is an addiction. No taxation or price increase will make most smokers quit any more than the expense of street drugs make an addict quit. It is a legal product. If Government was so concerned about the welfare of it's constituents they would ban it out right. They don't. They tax the hell out of it, No better than any other drug dealer.

The bars in my area came under Government legislation telling them smoking was not permitted in bars or indoors for that matter. The bars started closing quickly, Some on their own when the law came into effect others by going broke. Let's face it healthy Lifestyle folk don't drink a whole lot.

They are now trying to take it a step further and ban outdoor smoking in certain areas. The old Government gets an inch and takes a mile.

I am not pro smoking.

Addictions are an excuse for the weak. You choose to smoke and that.is your choice and right, but it is a choice not some phony made up disease.

 

[Duck]

I was visiting my father-in-law once in Johnson, KS where he worked for the city.
When I got a glass of water from the tap I smelled diesel in it before I even got it up to my nose.
I asked my mother-in-law how they could stand to drink it and neither she nor my wife (both non-smokers) could smell it or taste it.

When my wife's dad got home, my mother-in-law asked him about it.
After he asked her a dozen times who put her up to mentioning it, he said he dropped a fuel jug while they were mowing around the reservoir, but that he recovered it immediately and spilled almost nothing.

He never believed that I could smell fuel in the water.
He always thought that somebody put me up to it.

There are other things like that.
Numerous times I've walked into a place that reeked of mold which nobody else could smell, but nearly made me ill.

I've smelled coolant leaks a bunch of times on other peoples vehicles.

About a year ago I smelled a gas leak in my company's shop in Iowa. I was the only one who could smell it, and naturally they all thought it was the anti-gel barrels I was was smelling. Eventually I went to tell the president of the company. He wasn't in the office but his secretary was. She went out into the service bay & could smell it. About an hour later the president of the company himself was in that service bay, and he wasn't able to smell it either but he believed his secretary. They called the gas company & it turned out that an overhead heater was leaking, and the gas was congregating in the service pit because it's heavier than air. All of those people who could not smell the gas were non-smokers.

 

[Mike]

Closing this temporarily. Don't have time to see where this all started right now.

 

[bigyellowpete]

I am opening this back up after going on a clean up mission.

If this thread gets off topic and turns into another insult/name calling fest, I will close it again, as well as delete the offending posts, and hand out infractions to the offenders.

Carry on people. Carefully.

 

[Tim]

We were on a cruise excursion one time with a stop in Roatan, Honduras where we had been before to a joint called Salt n Pepper.
The guy would pick you up on the pier, haul you over to his joint, feed you fresh seafood lunch and a coupla-few drinks, then bring you back. All for a really reasonable price.

So there was some obnoxious a-hole of a woman on the pier.
Bitching n griping...
****ing n moaning...
bitch, bitch, bitching about people smoking on the pier.
The friggin cow was standing 5 feet down-wind from us and all she had to do was waddle her ass 10 feet upwind and all would be well for her. BUT NOOOOOO!! She just stood there bitching to her husband about the smokers.

Guess where she was going.

After we piled into the van and drove a few miles chit-chatting between the 8 or 10 people there,
I started going on about what a great time it was and how you couldn't beat the value, and how the cuban cigars for the ride back would cost you half the price (there weren't really any cigars).

AWWW HELL!!
She was madder than a wet hen!!
BITCH, BITCH, BITCH!! All the way there.
I asked her if I could have her cigar since she didn't want it.
She said she was going to flush it down the toilet to make sure NOBODY smoked it!!
She ate her lunch and hired a cab back within 30 minutes.
The rest of us had a swell time.
eacebanana:

:crafty:

That must have been the same women that was on a cruise 2 or 3 years ago with us! The ship was leaving port and a bunch of us were on the top deck drinkin and smokin and this gal walks up and covers her face with her shirt, I was looking at when she did it and I asked her....whats the matter? Somebody fart?.....She said that are smoke was killing her, I held my cigarette up and the wind was blowing the smoke away from the boat.
She is fussing about people that smoke have no consideration for non-smokers and blah blah blah....I just smiled at her and told her to take her unhappy ass to the non-smoking side of the ship, and when I'm on the Port side(non-smoking) I'll gladly not infringe on her rights to be around cigarette smoke, other wise when your on the Starboard side shut the **** up or move on. Talk about a wet hen stompin away.
I do believe thats the problem with non smokers thinking. They want to be were we are at but dont want the smoke but they know smokers can go any where.

I've stated I don't agree with government bans,

GOOD! Neither do I!

I don't think smoking is a good idea, but I don't try to restrict your habit unless it affects me directly in my own car or house.

Smoking is not a good idea and to be honest I wish I hadn't started but I do enjoy it. And if I were in your home or car I would never lite up. Thats just rude on my part. But on the same token dont bitch when you come to my house when I do lite up.

I'm called names, I'm insulted and I've been threatened.

Them post must have been deleted cause I never seen any of that.

If you treat someone who is neutral in this debate this way, why should I put myself out defending your rights the next time there is a new ordinance on the ballot?

If one is neutral you would not be defending my rights. And thats the whole problem with much of the people today, the "I dont do it ban it for all I care" but some day the feds will get around to banning something you do care about and you will be looking for support, and it wont be there because you didnt support me.
The feds realized this long ago that if they divide they will conquer

 

[Road Dust]

I no longer smoke, but I feel none of us are prisoners. If you don't like the environment you are in, go someplace else. Places where one might have to be, like offices and medical facilities, have already banned smoking. What more can one expect?

 

[Whirlwind]

I don't care if you smoke. I do care if I smell it. Just a little bit can make me sick (same goes for diesel exhaust- working in a shop will be an interesting experience, I'm sure!) so I avoid it as much as possible. That being said, I do have friends who smoke, and I have dated people who smoke. I simply differentiate between polite smokers and rude smokers. I doubt I need to explain the difference.

If I walked into a restaurant and found a lot of smokers, I walked back out and found somewhere else to eat. It's not that difficult, though I admit it is a little bit of an inconvenience. Still, I don't agree with taking the choice away from consenting adults. If they want to smoke, they can. It's their money and their body. I'm not going to tell anyone else what to do with their body, because I don't want anyone telling me what to do with mine. We all have bad habits, each and every one of us.

 

[stonefly]

…and smoke it!
​

"Smoking is not a privilege…" Hank Fumer draws a match flame to the end of a firm, fresh Marlboro and treats himself to a deep drag. Then, he expels. Velvet virtuosity widens white on white beneath a seedy ceiling. A slow fan selects quantum blocks of Hank's art in lazy rhythm and translates richly throughout the lodge, for all to consider. “…it is a right.”

“Dang right it is, Hank!” Phil's Camel idles in the tranquil clasp of deft, dutifully stained veterans. It oozes acrid strands and spirals that meander in the wake of Hank's funky pride. Stalwart they, excelsior, destined to accomplish that for which they were spawned a fleeting lifetime ago and that for which they will deliver up their essence. The sucking cadence of the fan stands them back and they jolt to attention. Time stops. Brief glory and the implacable sweep of the blade dispels them into thin air, thicker now for the expeditious reincarnation and inimitable persistence. Phil contemplates his Camel and in turn his friend. "We'll really let 'em have it tonight, won't we, Hank."

"Dang right we will, Phil." Hank's words are not spoken but exhaled, sworn and borne upon a foggy swirl of substance.

Meanwhile, on the other side of town, Marvin digs into his pocket and produces a warm, flattened, five pack of Wrigley's. "They consider it a God given right, and it's not." Expert fingers tenderly draw a slender, supple, spearmint out and away from her siblings. With practiced patience Marvin Dozer coaxes a tight outer wrapper longitudinally across inner foil. Then, he slips a clean, well trimmed nail under a folded edge, whereupon the exultant unpeeling of a final silver lining proceeds with abandon, exposing a sugar coated virgin for eager eyes, expectant lips, and gleaming teeth. "I've had my fill of it."

Pete peels a pink plug of Bazooka and silently scans Bazooka Joe's fractured rendition of the Golden Rule. Tearful beacons cross, beaming such joy that a cavernous maw, struck mute, could scarcely compete. Pete abandons his gum and he falls to the floor. He grabs his belly and gulps for breath between groans and gasps that gradually morph and coalesce into recognizable guffaws.

Later, in the early evening, the town's distinguished elders gather in an old cafeteria.

"Smoking is a privilege."

"Is not."

"Is so."

"Smoking is a right."

"Is not."

"Is so."

"Smokers got no consideration…everybody else gotta put up with their filthy habit…they're uncouth…they stink…it's downright disgusting."

"Now, Hank?"

"Now, Phil!"

Hank and Phil overturn an ancient cafeteria table and stand it on end. They face the crowd, pause for effect, and blow a couple of smoke rings that'd do Philip Morris proud. They point toward an encrusted underside that all can clearly see, and let 'em have it.

"Why don't y'all scrape that crud and stick that in yer ding dang pipe…"