Freight Rates
- Thread starter Terry
- Start date
Duck
Sarcastic remark goes here
Rates vary wildly, depending on where you're at, where the load is going to, and what type of product it is.
The biggest factor is supply vs. demand. The supply of available freight vs. the number of trucks needing a load. Or you can say it's the supply of available trucks vs. the amount of freight available. Same thing. Also, a secondary factor is where the load goes to. Nobody is going to want to take a load going some place where there's no freight to pick up once you get there and you know you will have to dead-head a long way to get re-loaded. You would insist on a higher rate going into this dead market area.
If you're in the middle of cattle country and you have a reefer, you're going to get a good rate hauling meat because there aren't a lot of empty reefer trucks sitting around in the middle of nowhere, 100 miles from the nearest interstate. But say, if that load goes to NYC, it's a big consumer area. They consume more food products than they produce. Pretty much the only refrigerated product you'll pick up there is produce that comes in to the ports from South America. And there's so many empty reefers in the area due to the large number of mouths to feed, those relatively few loads of grapes or bananas won't pay well no matter where they go. So lots of guys end up hauling dry freight out of NYC, and it pays even less. Or they dead-head quite a ways to find a decent paying load.
But if you're somewhere else and there's a load going INTO NYC, it'll pay pretty good, due to the fact your load out won't pay well and nobody wants to go to NYC anyway. Drivers don't want to go there because of traffic, and carriers don't want to go there due to the shortage of available loads coming out. So a shipper trying to get a load sent INTO NYC would have to pay more.
Another example of a place to avoid is Florida if you have a dry van. Let's say you bring in a load of car batteries to a Walmart warehouse. When you get empty, there's nothing to haul out of there. Florida's economy is basically from tourism. There's very little manufacturing. If you had a reefer you might get a load of oranges, but if you've got a dry van you'll either sit around a few days or dead-head up to Atlanta or somewhere far away. If there does happen to be a load of dry freight in Florida, it won't pay well because of the competition. The store shelves in Florida have to be kept stocked, so there will be lots of empty trucks creating competition for whatever dry freight happens to be available. So a load going INTO Florida will pay good, because you won't make any money coming out.
Some owner-operators get paid a flat rate per mile no matter where the load goes or comes from. That's averaged out by the carrier, who takes the real world market conditions out of the equation to give you a flat rate. That's not really the best way to operate a truck. Once you learn where all the better paying freight is at, and how to minimize being stuck in dead market areas, you'll make out better if you're paid percentage.
The biggest factor is supply vs. demand. The supply of available freight vs. the number of trucks needing a load. Or you can say it's the supply of available trucks vs. the amount of freight available. Same thing. Also, a secondary factor is where the load goes to. Nobody is going to want to take a load going some place where there's no freight to pick up once you get there and you know you will have to dead-head a long way to get re-loaded. You would insist on a higher rate going into this dead market area.
If you're in the middle of cattle country and you have a reefer, you're going to get a good rate hauling meat because there aren't a lot of empty reefer trucks sitting around in the middle of nowhere, 100 miles from the nearest interstate. But say, if that load goes to NYC, it's a big consumer area. They consume more food products than they produce. Pretty much the only refrigerated product you'll pick up there is produce that comes in to the ports from South America. And there's so many empty reefers in the area due to the large number of mouths to feed, those relatively few loads of grapes or bananas won't pay well no matter where they go. So lots of guys end up hauling dry freight out of NYC, and it pays even less. Or they dead-head quite a ways to find a decent paying load.
But if you're somewhere else and there's a load going INTO NYC, it'll pay pretty good, due to the fact your load out won't pay well and nobody wants to go to NYC anyway. Drivers don't want to go there because of traffic, and carriers don't want to go there due to the shortage of available loads coming out. So a shipper trying to get a load sent INTO NYC would have to pay more.
Another example of a place to avoid is Florida if you have a dry van. Let's say you bring in a load of car batteries to a Walmart warehouse. When you get empty, there's nothing to haul out of there. Florida's economy is basically from tourism. There's very little manufacturing. If you had a reefer you might get a load of oranges, but if you've got a dry van you'll either sit around a few days or dead-head up to Atlanta or somewhere far away. If there does happen to be a load of dry freight in Florida, it won't pay well because of the competition. The store shelves in Florida have to be kept stocked, so there will be lots of empty trucks creating competition for whatever dry freight happens to be available. So a load going INTO Florida will pay good, because you won't make any money coming out.
Some owner-operators get paid a flat rate per mile no matter where the load goes or comes from. That's averaged out by the carrier, who takes the real world market conditions out of the equation to give you a flat rate. That's not really the best way to operate a truck. Once you learn where all the better paying freight is at, and how to minimize being stuck in dead market areas, you'll make out better if you're paid percentage.
Terry
Gear Grinding Jerk
I appreciate the detailed explanation of how things work, but I already knew that.
I finally found a couple of brokers to talk to me. I talked with CH Robinson (Famous (infamous) for cheap freight). They are paying $1.50 on the low side. I also talked with a local Landstar Broker who said much of what they are paying is $1.50-$2.00 plus a .50 fuel surcharge.
Believe me... I do understand what it is like to be stuck in Montana and Colorado with nothing but ripoff prices on freight to get out of there. Florida used to be a bad one too.
To clarify my question. I am not going to lease to anyone again. I am very familiar with the business but I have not been in it for a few years and my question was what are CURRENT freight rates, not what I would make leasing to someone.
Leasing on to someone has it's good and bad side. Personally, I think the bad out weighs the good if you are business minded, intelligent, and self motivated.
I finally found a couple of brokers to talk to me. I talked with CH Robinson (Famous (infamous) for cheap freight). They are paying $1.50 on the low side. I also talked with a local Landstar Broker who said much of what they are paying is $1.50-$2.00 plus a .50 fuel surcharge.
Believe me... I do understand what it is like to be stuck in Montana and Colorado with nothing but ripoff prices on freight to get out of there. Florida used to be a bad one too.
To clarify my question. I am not going to lease to anyone again. I am very familiar with the business but I have not been in it for a few years and my question was what are CURRENT freight rates, not what I would make leasing to someone.
Leasing on to someone has it's good and bad side. Personally, I think the bad out weighs the good if you are business minded, intelligent, and self motivated.
terrylamar
Well-Known Member
I see nothing wrong with paying for the information. In this life, you get nothing for free or get get exactly what you pay for.
Personally, I think most drivers that are thinking about becoming Owner Operatiors should be leased onto a company. This may include me, though I just left a Leased position with ATS. There are many advantages and they provide a safety net.
They have established freight in established freight lanes. They subscribe to other load boards. The entire load finding process takes place behind the sceens and you are rarely affected.
Most leases offer settlements on a weekly basis, regardles if the carrier is paid on time or paid at all.
Most pay many of the fees an owner operator pays, base plates and does all the reporting for you. IFTA reporting is a big pain in the rear.
In many cases, your carrier offers discounts on their fuel network, maintenance and tire purchases.
Even if you are business minded, intelligent and self motivated, this is a cut throat business with a long learning curve. 95% (made up fact!
) of owner operators will do better on a lease than they will with their own authority.
Personally, I think most drivers that are thinking about becoming Owner Operatiors should be leased onto a company. This may include me, though I just left a Leased position with ATS. There are many advantages and they provide a safety net.
They have established freight in established freight lanes. They subscribe to other load boards. The entire load finding process takes place behind the sceens and you are rarely affected.
Most leases offer settlements on a weekly basis, regardles if the carrier is paid on time or paid at all.
Most pay many of the fees an owner operator pays, base plates and does all the reporting for you. IFTA reporting is a big pain in the rear.
In many cases, your carrier offers discounts on their fuel network, maintenance and tire purchases.
Even if you are business minded, intelligent and self motivated, this is a cut throat business with a long learning curve. 95% (made up fact!
) of owner operators will do better on a lease than they will with their own authority.
searay
Yachtman
Not true!!! I have a load on now from C.H. Robinson. I'm going 90 miles and it pays $500.00 thats $5.55 per mile. I did another one from them 2 weeks ago it was 15 wide and i went 43 miles and it paid $1500.00. When your leased to a company and they get a load from them you will never see what it truely pays.
Even if you are business minded, intelligent and self motivated, this is a cut throat business with a long learning curve. 95% (made up fact!
True That!!!
Terry
Gear Grinding Jerk
Some people are sheep... Some Shepherds... Some Wolves.
I am quite aware of how the business goes.
Most of my life I have always been a cross between a wolf and a Shepherd. I have never been good at being a sheep.
I did that lease on thing when I first bought my truck... First company was great until they went out of business. I prefer not to let people be in charge of getting loads for me. They don't pay my bills, they should not determine my pay.
The only time I ever did the percentage thing was when I first started out in 1997 as a cattle hauler (company driver)... got ripped off... either that or the guy I worked for never got paid.
The reason 95% (?) of O/O won't make it as independents is because they don't save up for rainy days. They don't properly budget, they don't hire CPA's. They don't have specialists doing IFTA taxes. Oh... and they can't pass a DOT audit.
They are sheep. They might be making a payment on a truck, but someone else is controlling their truck, life, money, and so on.
IMHO, Landstar is the best of both worlds. They get to pick their own loads while having the backing of a sound, established company.
I have gotten some primo loads from CH Robinson, but it is rare. Yes, I too have got $10 a mile loads from CH Robinson. They paid $200 to pick up a trailer in Denver and drop it off a few miles away in Denver. But, realistically, they are generally a last resort to go to. Not to talk complete crap about CHR though, atleast you know you are going to get paid.
Really not into the Leasing thing.... To many morons in dispatch. I learned that the hard way with Meadowlark out of Billings, MT and Hills Bros out of Omaha, NE.
Never again.
I am quite aware of how the business goes.
Most of my life I have always been a cross between a wolf and a Shepherd. I have never been good at being a sheep.
I did that lease on thing when I first bought my truck... First company was great until they went out of business. I prefer not to let people be in charge of getting loads for me. They don't pay my bills, they should not determine my pay.
The only time I ever did the percentage thing was when I first started out in 1997 as a cattle hauler (company driver)... got ripped off... either that or the guy I worked for never got paid.
The reason 95% (?) of O/O won't make it as independents is because they don't save up for rainy days. They don't properly budget, they don't hire CPA's. They don't have specialists doing IFTA taxes. Oh... and they can't pass a DOT audit.
They are sheep. They might be making a payment on a truck, but someone else is controlling their truck, life, money, and so on.
IMHO, Landstar is the best of both worlds. They get to pick their own loads while having the backing of a sound, established company.
I have gotten some primo loads from CH Robinson, but it is rare. Yes, I too have got $10 a mile loads from CH Robinson. They paid $200 to pick up a trailer in Denver and drop it off a few miles away in Denver. But, realistically, they are generally a last resort to go to. Not to talk complete crap about CHR though, atleast you know you are going to get paid.
Really not into the Leasing thing.... To many morons in dispatch. I learned that the hard way with Meadowlark out of Billings, MT and Hills Bros out of Omaha, NE.
Never again.
patriciajnsn
Steering Wheel Holder
Can't believe they charge just for some simple info to them.Soon Obama will be charging the public for questions they have.
Terry
Gear Grinding Jerk
It is information provided through private companies who compile it. It is mostly for people who are trying to figure out what they should be getting paid when hauling freight on unfamiliar lines.
People who follow the freight generally know how much they can get when they get where they are going.
These companies who provide the information are mostly a service to people who don't have a clue (as I didn't before I started calling a few brokers and asking a few questions).
It has nothing to do with the Government. Imagine if our tax dollars paid for yet another government service....
terrylamar
Well-Known Member
You are confusing leasing onto a company with your own equipment and leasing onto a company using their equipment.
As I stated, there are many advantages to leasing onto a company with your equipment.
As I stated, there are many advantages to leasing onto a company with your equipment.
Terry
Gear Grinding Jerk
I haven't seen any advantages. Dispatchers could care less if you have a payment to make, bills to pay, or a family to support. No, I not confusing fleece/lease and Leasing onto a company.
While I can't argue that leasing YOUR truck to a company may for for some people, I've had horrible experiences with inept morons who don't care how much they deadhead you or how long you sit.
Yes, the main advantage is that they pay you the same rate per mile no matter what the freight itself pays. Some companies pay a percentage. Some companies even guarantee a fuel price if you fuel in their network. They will even give you kick backs if you don't use the amount of fuel allotted for the run.
Again, I am very aware of the business and I know what I am talking about. I know what works for me, I know what doesn't.
I am your typical trucker. I know everything and everyone else is a moron.
Not every plan works for everyone. Some people are quite happy being company drivers. I am not, which is why I bought my own truck when I had the chance. Some people are quite content making the truck payment on trucks they will never own (CR England, Prime, Swift, etc). I personally find that moronic. To pay all the upkeep on a truck that you will never own and be forced to replace as soon as it is paid off is the king for fleece/leases.
That is also why I am compiling information and a business plan. I need to know what freight pays these days.
Earlier posts I've made asked for comparisons on truck insurance. My quote was in line with what other drivers were paying.
I am incapable of being a sheep. I have proven time and time again that I do best when I am in control of my own life.
So, to restate, I am not confused, you are just commenting without knowing what I am doing.
terrylamar
Well-Known Member
I'm not really sure what you are asking. For those that try to help you, you say you already know that, then go off on a tangent. When we respond to that, you get frustrated with us.
Back to your original question. For the most accurate information about freight rate, subscibe to a service. There is no way a national average is going to help you write an accurate business plan. You need specific rates for the freight lanes, commodity and time of the year for you application. If you find loads direct then all of that may go out the window.
Back to your original question. For the most accurate information about freight rate, subscibe to a service. There is no way a national average is going to help you write an accurate business plan. You need specific rates for the freight lanes, commodity and time of the year for you application. If you find loads direct then all of that may go out the window.
Terry
Gear Grinding Jerk
If you don't know what I am asking you haven't read the OP. Not one person here as answered that. I ended getting the answer to my question directly from a couple of different brokers.
It really was a simple question. What are the average freight rates for a dry van... The answer is between $1.50 - $2.25 a mile plus fuel surcharge.
Of course some rates are going to be higher to get people to go into places where freight rates suck coming out of.
Terry
Gear Grinding Jerk
I'm concerned that a reefer break down could be disastrous. Considering I will be buying a trailer 8 years old or so, that is pretty old for a reefer.
I say a trailer around 8 years old because I've had issues not being able to be loaded with a 10 year old trailer.
I haven't done Flatbed since 1998 and frankly, I just don't have enough confidence to do it properly. It has little to do with the additional start up costs for headache rack, tarps, chains, etc. I just don't know enough. (OMG did I just say I didn't know something?) Maybe I'm not a real trucker after all..
I like hauling Reefer. It's a different breed of cat from dry van. Now that is a cutthroat business with lumpers, receivers, and everyone else trying to get the best of you.
They can't, by law, say you can't unload your truck... but they can make is pretty hard by giving you old, broken, hand jacks. LOL
Here is a ridiculous answer when I called to find what Brother Logistics out of GA is paying to go to FLORIDA . Load from Hillsborough NJ ( NJ TP tolls) to Tampa FL extra stop in Baltimore MD approx 1200 miles for $1525, Nice ??? See attached
View attachment 5247
You may have some kind of suckup relations with them, but any time I have called them, they are a carrier absuser. One CH Robinson Agent told me to get any load from them I have to do at least 50 cheap loads with them, before I will start seeing any reasonable loads. He offered me a full 42K load from Laredo TX to go to New Jersey for $2950 appox 1900 miles.
Evan Trans Service just posted this load for $1200 from Croydon Pa to Cedar Falls IA 1078 miles 43K. Normal rates on this lane are 1500- 1800 due to tolls on this lane all the way from Ohio and Pennsylvania turnpike. Today there are 1198 loads in this area against aprox 335 trucks. It appears if he wants to retire earlier , please help him.
View attachment 5333
CRST cheap rates
CRST has this to say to a nominal bid on a 500 miles load for $2.0 / mile in the north east. See attached "He calls it stupid"
View attachment 5643
CRST has this to say to a nominal bid on a 500 miles load for $2.0 / mile in the north east. See attached "He calls it stupid"
View attachment 5643
It is information provided through private companies who compile it. It is mostly for people who are trying to figure out what they should be getting paid when hauling freight on unfamiliar lines.
People who follow the freight generally know how much they can get when they get where they are going.
These companies who provide the information are mostly a service to people who don't have a clue (as I didn't before I started calling a few brokers and asking a few questions).
It has nothing to do with the Government. Imagine if our tax dollars paid for yet another government service....
Terry, to be honest with you, there are a lot of members who only favor Brokers and don't want you to know how much the rate should be. The amount of loads left behind everyday is 35000 which are not booked for one reason or the other (to be increased to 54000 by June 2012). You need to see how many CDL drivers can run over the road away from the friends and family and then sit in a confined space for 14 hours every day. How many people can afford to maintain a commercial vehicle with insurance and all the other dues (approx $24k/year)? The minimum per dollar amount to run a mile is $1.50/mile with driver in it being paid $0.42/mile. If you think your O/Os venture can run for that amount then good otherwise you should average at least $1.60/mile no matter what on all miles including deadhead. I have noticed that some brokers may be getting help from some kind of undercover operation, because they were able to tell all about my personal family and who I have talked to about yesterday or day before. And this was from east cost to TX. So I do not make the bottom line due to that reason. Otherwise I talk to many O/Os they average somewhere from $1.85/mile to $2.50/mile on all miles including deadhead. You can pay for Spot market Rate for about $100/month extra to the load boards and get the actual rates being paid by brolers or figureout your own ways to find out how much the rate should be on that run. Either way it should make sense to you.
Terry I can say that the company I'm leased to pays 88% of the load and 100% FSC (.50 -.60 per mile) But, the rates they are offering are anywhere from $1.25 to $2.55 per mile. I can say that you can add Phoenix, AZ to the list of places with **** freight barely moving around, in, or out! What a learning experience! Also the winter months tend not pay as well as the spring and summer, or as I'm told. I hope this helped in some fashion.
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