Fuel Two cycle oil mixed in diesel fuel?

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I have heard about people adding two cycle oil to their diesel fuel in pre emission engines for better lubrication, but haven't tried it.

I ask because I am thinking about it, and always looking for things that will extend engine life.

So, anybody here done it, or currently doing this?

I know there are all sorts of ideas for adding all sorts of things to diesel fuel, but for the sake of this discussion, let's stick to two cycle oil.

What I do know, is that if you are going to do this, you need to look for a brand that is low ash, and mineral rather than synthetic.
 

Ranger_375

Well-Known Member
I can't speak to running it in a big truck, but I ran it in the duramax for a short duration. Didn't notice any significant benefits, I just run power service grey or white depending on the season without fail. My injectors and IP were designed for the lubricity inherent to higher sulfur fuels. Something's got to replace it, or you need a same pressure ULSD compatible IP.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I can't speak to running it in a big truck, but I ran it in the duramax for a short duration.
Seems to be very popular among the diesel pickup crowd.

I got interested in it again after seeing some discussions in a few of the trucking groups on Facebook.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dexron/Mercon ATF will lubricate as well as keep your injectors spraying as they should.
Ask around.
Heard of this and even old engine oil.

I'm leaning toward the two cycle oil though because it is designed to burned in fuel.

I know some try it for fuel economy and supposed smoother running. I'm mainly looking at longer engine life.

Not even sure what a gallon of this stuff runs, but if it does what I am looking for it is surely much cheaper than things line Lucas or Power Service.
 

Ranger_375

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's cheaper, but it's formulated for lubrication in a 2 cycle motor, unlike PS or Lucas or what have you... which is designed/formulated for providing both anti-gel/cetane increase/lubricity in a diesel engine.

I would have to look hard at this point, but The Diesel Place used to have a lengthy thread regarding additives and actual tested performance (not just users, but actual lab results) and if memory serves (don't rely on mine these days, sadly) PS actually proved to be the best bang for buck.
 

Blood

Driveler Emeritus
Heard of this and even old engine oil.

I'm leaning toward the two cycle oil though because it is designed to burned in fuel.

I know some try it for fuel economy and supposed smoother running. I'm mainly looking at longer engine life.

Not even sure what a gallon of this stuff runs, but if it does what I am looking for it is surely much cheaper than things line Lucas or Power Service.
I don't use additives [other than ATF] on a regular basis.
I used to use 'Meaner Power Kleener' at pm's but I just forgot about it for long enough that the moment passed.
When I started driving OTR I used drained oil in the fuel until I started monitoring my MPG's closely...
I actually LOST mileage without even factoring in the additional gallons of drained oil.

Another thing that I routinely did on advice of old-timers was fill the fuel filters half-way with ATF at every pm.
I never had injector issues until I got away from that for long enough to forget about it.

About a year ago I had an obvious injector fouling.
I used 4 or 5 of the top [most heavily advertised] remedies with zero results.
Then I remembered about the ATF and added a gallon to full 200 gallon tanks...
The obvious fouling ceased within a hundred or 200 miles and by the time I had to fill up again the truck was running like a scalded dog!

I've told a few others about it since then and it has cured injector fouling in every single case.

No need to reinvent the wheel on this one...
Hey [:thefinger:] to KR.
;)
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
ATF is great for the injectors.

Just really want to find out some first hand experience with the two cycle oil. If it helps with lubricity, it is a relatively cheap option.
 

Blood

Driveler Emeritus
ATF is great for the injectors.

Just really want to find out some first hand experience with the two cycle oil. If it helps with lubricity, it is a relatively cheap option.
It's nearly impossible to quantify.
I saw no results in a couple of months.
My worn out N14 with about 1.5 million hasn't had an injector issue in nearly a million miles.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dumping a gallon into the tanks in the morning. Haven't decided whether I want to do this long term or not.

Going to be listening to see if the two engines run any quieter or not, as many are claiming.

image.jpeg
 
I used it on a regular basis in a Volvo motor. I used to calculate so I wouldn't add anymore than 1/4 to 1/2 a oz per gallon. There is a formula that suggests adding roughly a oz per gallon, but in my experience it made the engine sluggish. That motor was a EGR motor so that could be why I had to put less in.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
So, my first gallon went in with right at 200 gallons of diesel in the tanks. Maybe a bit more, but I figure it was pretty close to 200 gallons.

One observation, and I don't know whether it is related or not. Fuel filter was showing about half full when I got home yesterday. After driving, I noticed the restriction dropped by about half. Checked the filter when I stopped to drop my scrap paper and pick up my paper rolls, and there the fuel filter had less than an inch of fuel showing. Temperature was about the same as the day before, and obviously, the same fuel. Again, just an observation, no way I am going to claim the oil was the reason. Possible that the solvents in the oil might be doing something to the biocrap that tends to clog the filters up.

Anyhow. Engine ran noticeably quieter, both of them, and seemed to run even smoother.

As for fuel economy, don't know if it helped, but it definitely didn't hurt. Hard to nail this down right now. My run today was from Bentonville, AR down to Valliant, OK. Nice hilly trip through the Boston mtns. on 49, then the fun hills and curves on 259, all with 44k of scrap paper. from there, picked up 45k+ load of roll stock at the same location, headed for Lafayette, LA. Made it as far as Natchitoches, LA. 7.4 mpg down to Valliant, 8.0 from there to where I stopped (per the ECM). Overall average for the day was 7.6, which I will take with this much weight and in the wind and rain all day.

Will see how it runs on this tank of fuel, then just run straight diesel for the rest of the week, and maybe grab 2-3 more gallons once I get back home for next week.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
FYI - trying this with a 200:1 mix, based on some stuff I read from @Rawze

Hoping this thread will draw some attention from others who are doing this, or have done it to get some results from some long term case studies. Going by cost, it would really take some good results in engine life, in addition to at least a tiny bump in MPG for this to be beneficial. Listening to the engine though makes me think something good has to be going on.
 

Copperhead

Well-Known Member
The lubricity game is a waste of time. Virtually all diesel, except for some mom and pop fuel outlets, contains at least 2% biodiesel nowadays. They are not required to post biodiesel sticker on pump till 5%. A simple 2% biodiesel will add more lubricity to ULSD than even the old low sulfur diesel had. Various studies have shown that just 2% biodiesel adds more lubricity to diesel than anything off the shelf. I may use an additive here and there for other issues, but lubricity is not one of them. I sure am not going to add any ATF. The slightest tint of red in diesel and the fines are pretty steep. Risk of being strip tested by DOT is slim, but all it takes is one time to cure anyone of any ideas about putting ATF in diesel. I live in Iowa, and the DOT is notorious for checking such things since there are a lot of farmers in Iowa that have access to red off road diesel and can be tempted to use it in their diesel pickups and grain trucks to save the road tax. $1000 fine in Iowa. Some states even steeper. And even the slightest trace of red will trigger the fine.

If one is bound and determined to use something, then get an additive in bulk from a local oil supplier. I get a good additive from my oil supplier that costs me about 2 cents per gallon of diesel to use at their recommended application rate. Cheaper than most anything one can get off the shelf.
 

Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
The lubricity game is a waste of time. Virtually all diesel, except for some mom and pop fuel outlets, contains at least 2% biodiesel nowadays. They are not required to post biodiesel sticker on pump till 5%. A simple 2% biodiesel will add more lubricity to ULSD than even the old low sulfur diesel had. Various studies have shown that just 2% biodiesel adds more lubricity to diesel than anything off the shelf. I may use an additive here and there for other issues, but lubricity is not one of them. I sure am not going to add any ATF. The slightest tint of red in diesel and the fines are pretty steep. Risk of being strip tested by DOT is slim, but all it takes is one time to cure anyone of any ideas about putting ATF in diesel. I live in Iowa, and the DOT is notorious for checking such things since there are a lot of farmers in Iowa that have access to red off road diesel and can be tempted to use it in their diesel pickups and grain trucks to save the road tax. $1000 fine in Iowa. Some states even steeper. And even the slightest trace of red will trigger the fine.

If one is bound and determined to use something, then get an additive in bulk from a local oil supplier. I get a good additive from my oil supplier that costs me about 2 cents per gallon of diesel to use at their recommended application rate. Cheaper than most anything one can get off the shelf.
Not sure about being a waste of time.

I posted a while back about having cold start issue with my APU. When starting, it would smoke like crazy and barely run for a few seconds.

I ran the two cycle oil one time in my tanks, one gallon of oil with about 200 gallons of fuel.

For the first time since getting my truck, the cold start issues seem to be gone for the APU. Initial startup is completely flawless

Dealing with the APU issue wasn't even on my radar when wanting to try this, and while I am not able to prove it was related, something seems to have fixed it at the same time as running that oil in my fuel.

Running without the oil right now, and there is a noticeable difference in the smoothness and quieter running of both engines compared to when I was running the oil.
 

SaddleTramp

Well-Known Member
Dumping a gallon into the tanks in the morning. Haven't decided whether I want to do this long term or not.

Going to be listening to see if the two engines run any quieter or not, as many are claiming.

View attachment 34239
Now that it's September, give an update.
I'll try it out after the ATF runs through. Have no idea about mixing the two oils together?
 
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Mike

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Now that it's September, give an update.
I'll try it out after the ATF runs through. Have no idea about mixing the two oils together?
Don't know that is really did anything, so I quit doing it.

Being that I have a 7 micron filter, I have been running Power Service in my tanks quite a bit. The filters were struggling to even make it to my oil change intervals, and even though they are cheap, I just didn't want to mess with replacing the between oil changes. Accidentally, I found out that once the filter is about 3/4 plugged up, I could run Power Service through the tanks, and by the time I needed to fuel again, the filter would barely have an inch of fuel in the bottom of it, and restriction on the fuel gauge would drop back down to where I felt more comfortable. Tested this theory multiple times now, and it works. The way I see it, if the filter is getting gummed up with the bio crap, then it can't be doing good stuff in the rest of the fuel system either, so I put the chemical in rather than just increasing my fuel filter changes.

Now, because @Blood never shuts up about it, and I had just a tad of a rough idle the past week or so, I decided to pursue the idea of ATF in the fuel (one gallon of ATF divided between the two 135 gallon tanks). Well, 100 or so miles since fueling up, the engine is purring at idle, that is, as much as you can get a Detroit to purr...... Can't draw a complete conclusion on how it affects the fuel filter situation, but on this 10 micron filter I am running this go around, the fuel was up to the #5 on the filter, and in 100 miles, it dropped down to the #6. Fuel restriction was near 3 on the gauge, now barely pulling up over 1 on a steady pull.

and I know @ironpony was whining about the ATF turning the diesel red and getting all truck drivers thrown into prison for life, well, not even a tint of red that I could see in the tanks, or through the davco after 100 miles of driving. ;)

Maybe a quart of so of ATF on each fillup, or some sort of maintenance plan like this might be something good to go with on the older design engines. Bio is not my friend.
 

Sinister

Trailer Park Wisdom. Free.
Staff member
Supporter
Don't know that is really did anything, so I quit doing it.

Being that I have a 7 micron filter, I have been running Power Service in my tanks quite a bit. The filters were struggling to even make it to my oil change intervals, and even though they are cheap, I just didn't want to mess with replacing the between oil changes. Accidentally, I found out that once the filter is about 3/4 plugged up, I could run Power Service through the tanks, and by the time I needed to fuel again, the filter would barely have an inch of fuel in the bottom of it, and restriction on the fuel gauge would drop back down to where I felt more comfortable. Tested this theory multiple times now, and it works. The way I see it, if the filter is getting gummed up with the bio crap, then it can't be doing good stuff in the rest of the fuel system either, so I put the chemical in rather than just increasing my fuel filter changes.

Now, because @Blood never shuts up about it, and I had just a tad of a rough idle the past week or so, I decided to pursue the idea of ATF in the fuel (one gallon of ATF divided between the two 135 gallon tanks). Well, 100 or so miles since fueling up, the engine is purring at idle, that is, as much as you can get a Detroit to purr...... Can't draw a complete conclusion on how it affects the fuel filter situation, but on this 10 micron filter I am running this go around, the fuel was up to the #5 on the filter, and in 100 miles, it dropped down to the #6. Fuel restriction was near 3 on the gauge, now barely pulling up over 1 on a steady pull.

and I know @ironpony was whining about the ATF turning the diesel red and getting all truck drivers thrown into prison for life, well, not even a tint of red that I could see in the tanks, or through the davco after 100 miles of driving. ;)

Maybe a quart of so of ATF on each fillup, or some sort of maintenance plan like this might be something good to go with on the older design engines. Bio is not my friend.
When I took that day cab loaded to 149,000 to Vegas and back, it ran like crap all the way to Ely, NV.

I put a QUART of Dex in at the fuel stop in Ely, and it seemed to help with power and less black soot the rest of the way to Vegas, and back to Iowa, again loaded at 149,000.

I think that truck was an 05, C15, 435, bumped to 500, with a Pittsburgh box that was not hooked up, and never rebuilt.

Don't remember how many miles on it.
 

mndriver

curmudgeon extraordinare
Supporter
In Dec 2013, I replaced ALL of my fuel lines with new.

I finally was able to get my truck to run correctly be getting rid of the crap in my tanks with a "flu shot".

all in ONE 120-gal tank.
16 oz bottle of FPPF Kill'em algicide.
32 oz of Powerservice Diesel 911 (removes moisture)
32 oz bottle of PowerService Clear Diesel

My tank was black on the interior. It was nasty. I also figured since it was UNDER 10*F that month, I needed to get the extra action going. Read the label. In a B10 or greater or temp >10*F, you need to double the additive. (beginning to see why I feel additives are a waste of money unless you have a specific need.?)

that little "flu shot" cost me almost $100.

Since then, I continue to use a Wix 33651 fuel filter. Yes, it's only a 10 micron filter. The 33651XE is rated at 5 micron. I'm cheap. I got the 33651 for like $4.78 instead of paying almost 6X the price for the XE.

But there's something else I do too.

Once a month, I run my tanks down. Especially when I know that I will be able to accurately track my distance travelled and get a good gauge on the fuel. And by that I mean at or more than 200-220 gallons of fuel on twin 120-gal fuel tanks.

The most I have ever added was 213 gallons of fuel doing that.

You remove all the asphaltene building up in your tank and that's what causes the sludge to start forming in your tanks. It's become a bigger issue with the higher pressure, higher fuel temp fuel systems since the mid-90's engines came out. And it will only get worse with these common rail fuel systems we are going to.
 

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