Thinking about a lease. Need some help.....

Hennessey

Well-Known Member
I am currently a company driver but down the road I am looking at leasing a truck. However, i do not know the first thing when it comes to leasing a truck. I always thought that, you would go with the company that you wanna lease it from and then pay it off and volia,,,,, your done! But i know that is not the case. I know that there is a lot of truck dealerships out there, just like buying a car, you work to make that money to pay for it. does anyone have any experience buying from those places? i was looking at a truck that would cost around 25000 dollars,,, payments would be very low correct?
 
To the OP.....

If you are a company driver already, start tracking all your expenses as if you were a business owner already for 6-12 months minimum. Everything. From fuel to popcorn farts.

You are no longer a company driver, you're a business person. Start acting like it. If that means you step back and take some classes in business management/finance then do so.

As to financing, good luck. There's a 1000 ways to do it and more than that many scam artists out there to help you. The sooner you can work with your local bank, the better.

Small Business Calculators -- Bankrate.com


Nope, that doesn't directly answer your questions either. But I could tell you a neat story on how I did it. I'm sure @Skateboard or any of the other O/O on the board did theirs as well.
 
To the OP.....
To the "OP" eh? mind if I call you by your screen name?

If you are a company puke already
By if you mean a company driver....I believe I stated that in my very first post.

Start acting like it.
from day one I have saved all of my gas recites from everything that i have done from day one. Every mile that i have done has been accounted for.

Ladies and gents, what Im looking for is basically this: If you went to a bank, got a loan, bought a truck signed on to a company and drove their trailers.....cool
OR
If you went to a company, drove as a 'company puke' from what mndriver likes to call most of everyone who needed a start in the business (no silver spoon in this mouth), decided to to try your luck at a lease, got your truck and paid it off, and now your a o/o pulling the company trailers.... cool.

if you did do one of these.....what are some things to watch out for?
 
Lighten up.

There are a ton of topics like this. I came online in 2012 looking to get into trucking. I got my cdl in 1990, left in 97 and returned in 2012.

90% of my information I found by using search functions on a few different forums. It gave me the hits to go other places to find the rest of it.

Search Results for Query: Microloan | The Truckers Forum

If it appears that I am being "sarcastic" its because there is a hint there. I won't deny it. The way your original post is worded, suggests to me that you will seriously struggle with the business financing and management side of running a business. Interest rates and terms (length of note) are pretty much the same for a lease vs a bank finance. I gave you a link to determine that information. It's the same way I'd have found the answer and given it to you. You just have the ability now to put those values in yourself. The whole "give a fish/ teach to fish" principal.

Keyword searches lead to more keywords and more searches.

Understanding why you lease vs a piece of equipment another one. There's a ton of resources on Google to answer that question as well. And they go into serious detail. It'd be a book to write about it here.
lease vs buy equipment - Google Search


The SBA and S.C.O.R.E. are a great resource as well.

Equipment Leasing: Weighing the Pros and Cons | The U.S. Small Business Administration | SBA.gov

It's not just fuel receipts. It's understanding where you get things. Parts houses can be a bigger resource that a shop for understanding how to make repairs. My parts guy has helped me a ton of ways to save money a shop and mechanic never would. Understanding the economics of why a company runs a cascadia over a 379/w9. A cat vs a Detroit vs a Cummins.

Find a couple different trucks you want. Then go price what it costs to make certain repairs. Price out a full service on each truck. Then on what you can do it for. Then look at the time you spend sitting waiting for a shop doing a service and realize, as a business owner, that time is now yours. Do you hire it done? Or do it yourself? What value does my time have? Then ask yourself do you have $5-7,000 in tools to do those repairs too.

Those answers are so detailed, the only way to do it is as a company driver and record every little thing you do or have done to the truck until you puke on the reality that it's a huge chunk of money and you never realized just how much a driver costs a company. Because now, that company is yours, that driver is you and that money is really yours. And it is very finite. Do you repair the drive shaft this week? Or the door handle? How about the battery cables vs a cracked cross member? A bad brake chamber? Or a wet fuel line?


And that is why some drivers get to be crusty old curmudgeons.
 
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if you did do one of these.....what are some things to watch out for?

You need to watch out for the fact that most of these are weighted completely in favor of the company that is leasing you the truck. Actually, all of them are weighted that way, because they are designed to take most of the risks away from the carrier, and put them on the driver. Then again, that is the same reason that just about all companies lease on owner operators.

First and foremost, you need to wade through any and all comments that simply trash leases. 99% of these people never did one, or didn't do their research and got into a bad one. Tends to be a lot of comments that are simply repeated over and over from people that heard about it from someone else.

Watch out for tricky leases. When the company sets a fixed revenue per mile, sets a fixed fuel cost per gallon, you can basically see the future there, and the future is that the only way you can earn more in a week is to run more miles. With most of these situations, as long as you have no truck issues, you will make possibly a tiny bit more than a company driver.

If the company you want to lease a truck from doesn't pay the type of revenue you would expect to get as an owner operator with your own truck, don't lease a truck from them.

Find out how restrictive they are with how you spend "YOUR MONEY" on the truck. If it is your truck, they won't care which tires you put on it. If it is your truck, you will be able to maintain it according to the manufacturers requirements, rather than theirs.

Find out how much the truck is going to cost, total money, once it is paid for. Compare that to a similar truck, including the bank financing. If you are being ripped off at this point, don't lease the truck. Some people will do this due to bad credit, and that is a major mistake. Drive a company truck, get your finances fixed, and make a smart purchase once you have good credit to back you up.

When I leased my truck, I ultimately did it because I wanted a new truck. At the same time, I wasn't 100% comfortable with the risk involved with the emissions that are on these new trucks, so I ultimately did a lease purchase through Schneider, effectively putting that long term risk on their shoulders instead of mine. Turns out, the truck was a constant problem, and I got out early. I knew the process of getting out of the truck early, meaning I knew exactly what I was getting into, and I ended up defaulting on that 3 year lease just after 1 year.

Honestly, now that I have been through this, it doesn't matter if it is a lease purchase, or financing a truck on my own. I will not advise to anybody that they go out and get a truck with any sort of emissions on it. That includes those that simply have EGR. I don't have any intention of driving any truck that has emissions on it in the near future, unless it belongs to somebody else. You shouldn't have to constantly wonder what is going to break next when you are driving a truck down the road trying to earn money.

This is an industry with slim profit margins. You have to operate the truck efficiently to make good money, and you can't afford things breaking while you are making payments.

One more major fault with lease purchases. That is "weekly payments". Weekly payments, unless you have money built up to cover those payments without depending on your settlement covering them is a horrible way to operate. This causes you to bypass good loads in favor of loads that you can get in by the "cut off date" in order to have enough money in you settlement to cover expenses. This ultimately costs you a lot of money over the course of a year, because you are effectively taking bad loads. It's genius for the lease purchase company because it locks 90% of the lease purchase drivers into their trucks, unable to take any time off.
 
I'll add this to.

Pick up and IRS Form 1040, Schedule C, schedule s, Schedule SE.

Learn what your tax write offs are in understand how they are going to be placed on one of those forms depending on how you organize.
 
Honestly, now that I have been through this, it doesn't matter if it is a lease purchase, or financing a truck on my own. I will not advise to anybody that they go out and get a truck with any sort of emissions on it. That includes those that simply have EGR. I don't have any intention of driving any truck that has emissions on it in the near future, unless it belongs to somebody else. You shouldn't have to constantly wonder what is going to break next when you are driving a truck down the road trying to earn money.

There are several guys doing a L/P where I load.
We have to stay in the break room while the truck is in the dock and it's depressing as hell.
Nearly every trip I hear the tales of woe and I can't figure out why they keep plugging.

Last trip it was a loose wire causing gauges to act up on a new(ish) Volvo.
That along with a check engine light cost the guy nearly $4K...
DAMN!!
$4K right out of the clear blue sky...
and it's not a fluke but almost a routine thing.

Not everyone is having issues but this guy inparticular can't seem to catch a break.
He always looks like his dog just died.
I can't imagine why he stays with it, he'd probably be better off driving for 25 cpm than torturing himself with this truck month after month.
 
Lighten up Francis.
Lol I'm ok.... You posts gave me a good ideal to research other post. You commented on a post in another topic that I looked at. My apologies if I sounded rude, that was not my intention at all. I'm starting from ground zero, and working my way up. But your right I do not have the business/ financial background to begin to think about that part of it. I'm trying to learn little by little. Just like you, I stepped out in 06, and just got back into it. However, being a driver was always in my mind.
 
I left and got a degree in industrial management. It is half business management and half Industrial Engineering. So a lot of this stuff is almost second nature to me.



Eta
Being an owner operator is not about being a driver it is being an entrepreneur and business owner.

It is an entirely different mindset and attitude than a driver. It doesn't matter if you are an lease operator or an independent owner operator
 
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You need to watch out for the fact that most of these are weighted completely in favor of the company that is leasing you the truck. Actually, all of them are weighted that way, because they are designed to take most of the risks away from the carrier, and put them on the driver. Then again, that is the same reason that just about all companies lease on owner operators.

First and foremost, you need to wade through any and all comments that simply trash leases. 99% of these people never did one, or didn't do their research and got into a bad one. Tends to be a lot of comments that are simply repeated over and over from people that heard about it from someone else.

Watch out for tricky leases. When the company sets a fixed revenue per mile, sets a fixed fuel cost per gallon, you can basically see the future there, and the future is that the only way you can earn more in a week is to run more miles. With most of these situations, as long as you have no truck issues, you will make possibly a tiny bit more than a company driver.

If the company you want to lease a truck from doesn't pay the type of revenue you would expect to get as an owner operator with your own truck, don't lease a truck from them.

Find out how restrictive they are with how you spend "YOUR MONEY" on the truck. If it is your truck, they won't care which tires you put on it. If it is your truck, you will be able to maintain it according to the manufacturers requirements, rather than theirs.

Find out how much the truck is going to cost, total money, once it is paid for. Compare that to a similar truck, including the bank financing. If you are being ripped off at this point, don't lease the truck. Some people will do this due to bad credit, and that is a major mistake. Drive a company truck, get your finances fixed, and make a smart purchase once you have good credit to back you up.

When I leased my truck, I ultimately did it because I wanted a new truck. At the same time, I wasn't 100% comfortable with the risk involved with the emissions that are on these new trucks, so I ultimately did a lease purchase through Schneider, effectively putting that long term risk on their shoulders instead of mine. Turns out, the truck was a constant problem, and I got out early. I knew the process of getting out of the truck early, meaning I knew exactly what I was getting into, and I ended up defaulting on that 3 year lease just after 1 year.

Honestly, now that I have been through this, it doesn't matter if it is a lease purchase, or financing a truck on my own. I will not advise to anybody that they go out and get a truck with any sort of emissions on it. That includes those that simply have EGR. I don't have any intention of driving any truck that has emissions on it in the near future, unless it belongs to somebody else. You shouldn't have to constantly wonder what is going to break next when you are driving a truck down the road trying to earn money.

This is an industry with slim profit margins. You have to operate the truck efficiently to make good money, and you can't afford things breaking while you are making payments.

One more major fault with lease purchases. That is "weekly payments". Weekly payments, unless you have money built up to cover those payments without depending on your settlement covering them is a horrible way to operate. This causes you to bypass good loads in favor of loads that you can get in by the "cut off date" in order to have enough money in you settlement to cover expenses. This ultimately costs you a lot of money over the course of a year, because you are effectively taking bad loads. It's genius for the lease purchase company because it locks 90% of the lease purchase drivers into their trucks, unable to take any time off.
It's called operating capital ... don't start a business without it ... And yeah, that is a horrible way to operate a business ... It's why I don't do it.

Repairs are pain, but part of this business ... This year, a turbo, an actuator, DOC filter, cam, clutch, AC rebuild, windshield, 2 airbags, 8 drive tires, a drive wheel, DPF service, flex pipe and new bumper/fender ... But it is a heck of lot easier when you are working with a company where managing your maintenance funds is your responsibility. As well as, when and where you have the maintenance performed.

Still going to clear $55K after taxes and took 11 weeks off. Fiscal year ends in 4 days ... will start the new year by taking 18 days off and last truck payment is on 1/13.
 
Again, please forgive me for being a newb. I've had one cousin get a truck from a company named Buel in sc. and to my knowledge he was a lease-to-own. took him 3 years to pay off the truck but after he did. he left that company and now hauls containers out of nj, making 1700-1800 a week. I didnt get all the facts from him but thats why i come on here lol.
 
@mndriver - I made a post last night about this very topic. I'm a n00b to the forum, perhaps you can help better communicate this information?

Financing FAQ & resources to purchase/lease

Thanks1
You are asking for a business management discussion of financial interests to a lot of folks that are barely comprehending buying a job. I state this from many hours sitting in a truckstop TV lounge on a Friday or Saturday night and eating at liar's counter in the restaurants there.

While there are owner operator's here who do understand this information, explaining it to them isn't the issue. These folks get it.

People would do themselves very well to take a two year course in business finance or accounting of sorts towards running a business.

I've often thought of building an on-line curriculum specifically for owner/operators to work with a local community college for either an AAS or diploma. But their requirements for that now in the state of Minnesota is now a minimum of a Master's degree. And I haven't seen the cost benefit of earning that sheep skin.
 
It's called operating capital ... don't start a business without it ... And yeah, that is a horrible way to operate a business ... It's why I don't do it.

Repairs are pain, but part of this business ... This year, a turbo, an actuator, DOC filter, cam, clutch, AC rebuild, windshield, 2 airbags, 8 drive tires, a drive wheel, DPF service, flex pipe and new bumper/fender ... But it is a heck of lot easier when you are working with a company where managing your maintenance funds is your responsibility. As well as, when and where you have the maintenance performed.

Still going to clear $55K after taxes and took 11 weeks off. Fiscal year ends in 4 days ... will start the new year by taking 18 days off and last truck payment is on 1/13.
If you're an O/O as you describe, you're kind of talking both sides of the tracks.

You talk about needing operating capital and not doing it because you don't have it, then turn around and say your an O/O about to make your last truck payment.


You are already operating as a business yet are doing so without operating capital. That's how I'm reading your comments. So what's the issue? Almost like your saying, "do it this way, but don't do it how I do it."

And no, I'm not saying how you are doing it is wrong.

There are several ways to have "operating capital". Some outright cash. Others with equipment equity. All different ways to look at things.
 
If you're an O/O as you describe, you're kind of talking both sides of the tracks.

You talk about needing operating capital and not doing it because you don't have it, then turn around and say your an O/O about to make your last truck payment.


You are already operating as a business yet are doing so without operating capital. That's how I'm reading your comments. So what's the issue? Almost like your saying, "do it this way, but don't do it how I do it."

And no, I'm not saying how you are doing it is wrong.

There are several ways to have "operating capital". Some outright cash. Others with equipment equity. All different ways to look at things.
Yeah ... looking back ... that was poorly written.

What I was referring to is falling into the trap that Mike pointed out ... running for a weekly paycheck. If you're going into business, you need a to have the cash and keep the cash on hand to meet the payroll. Not relying on that weeks cash flow to meet your payroll.

I run my business to maximize my long term cash accumulation ... weekly payroll and and expenses are covered by operating cash reserves
 
Again, please forgive me for being a newb. I've had one cousin get a truck from a company named Buel in sc. and to my knowledge he was a lease-to-own. took him 3 years to pay off the truck but after he did. he left that company and now hauls containers out of nj, making 1700-1800 a week. I didnt get all the facts from him but thats why i come on here lol.
1700 to 1800 a week is 1 breakdown away from being out of business
 
1 thing I would like to add lease purchase can be a valuable toll before you buy your 1st truck on your own. But always treat them as a rental if you don't most companies will break your heart . Here's a rule of thumb I used to decent success if you can live on say 900 take home a week as a company driver then force yourself to put anything over that into an interest baring account and only use it in an emergency. Otherwise use it to repair credit (if need be) or save for a down payment. And also know when to cut the strings of a l/p most I've seen are only good for about a year or so. Then move on . And last but not least which in my opinion is the hardest never be in a hurry always take your time when making business decisions. Apply the hare and turtle story here. Good luck
 

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