Trucking News: Proposed changes to HOS

[Hillbilly Canuck]

I don't think requiring a full three hours just to pause the clock is the right way to go.

 

[Injun]

****ing hell.. This is the flexibility the goddam owner ops and OTR drivers have been screaming for ever since the 2005 changes. Nothing says you are required to take this break. It's like the current 8/2 sleeper split, only the short period actually stops the clock. If you choose to go off duty at a shipper or receiver, that's your business. It doesn't necessarily extend anything unless you, the driver, agree to it.

CFR 392.3 is not being changed in any way:

49 CFR 392.3 - Ill or fatigued operator.
No driver shall operate a commercial motor vehicle, and a motor carrier shall not require or permit a driver to operate a commercial motor vehicle, while the driver's ability or alertness is so impaired, or so likely to become impaired, through fatigue, illness, or any other cause, as to make it unsafe for him/her to begin or continue to operate the commercial motor vehicle.

and Section 405 of the Surface Transportation Assistance Act of 1982 has not been repealed.
Surface Transportation Assistance Act - Wikipedia

But, please, don't let little things like facts interfere with your

 

[joseph1135]

****ing hell.. This is the flexibility the goddam owner ops and OTR drivers have been screaming for ever since the 2005 changes. Nothing says you are required to take this break. It's like the current 8/2 sleeper split, only the short period actually stops the clock. If you choose to go off duty at a shipper or receiver, that's your business. It doesn't necessarily extend anything unless you, the driver, agree to it.

CFR 392.3 is not being changed in any way:


and Section 405 of the Surface Transportation Assistance Act of 1982 has not been repealed.
Surface Transportation Assistance Act - Wikipedia

But, please, don't let little things like facts interfere with your

It’s just a proposal. I don’t think we will see change anytime soon

 

[Electric Chicken]

****ing hell.. This is the flexibility the goddam owner ops and OTR drivers have been screaming for ever since the 2005 changes. Nothing says you are required to take this break. It's like the current 8/2 sleeper split, only the short period actually stops the clock. If you choose to go off duty at a shipper or receiver, that's your business. It doesn't necessarily extend anything unless you, the driver, agree to it.

CFR 392.3 is not being changed in any way:


and Section 405 of the Surface Transportation Assistance Act of 1982 has not been repealed.
Surface Transportation Assistance Act - Wikipedia

But, please, don't let little things like facts interfere with your

It's just another opportunity for abuse. It assumes drivers are little angels who will actually use it for some rest.

Do you wanna be beside a truck who's operator is on the last 30 minute stretch of a 17 hour workday? I sure as hell don't.

It's bad enough having people fudging paper. This would make it a free for all.

It's going back to more hours for less pay. It's asinine. And you can't deny that that's how it'll actually be used by many, if not most.

 

[Injun]

It's just another opportunity for abuse. It assumes drivers are little angels who will actually use it for some rest.

Do you wanna be beside a truck who's operator is on the last 30 minute stretch of a 17 hour workday? I sure as hell don't.

It's bad enough having people fudging paper. This would make it a free for all.

It's going back to more hours for less pay. It's asinine. And you can't deny that that's how it'll actually be used by many, if not most.

It eliminates 90% of the stated objections to ELDs, it ends the unsubstantiated dangers of clock racing and it allows drivers to maintain their normal 24 hour sleep/work rhythm. It's exactly what drivers have been asking for. It almost looks like OOIDA wrote it, but I'm sure they'll find something to bitch about with it.

 

[Mike]

This is an absolutely horrible idea.

14 hours is long enough. It’s too long. Way too damn long.

Sure, it’s my truck and nobody can force me to extend my day. That said, company drivers, the weak ones (seems to be most of them), would get forced into stretching their days out to please the shippers and help their attempt to drive rates back down.

Just when I was thinking that the trucking industry was starting to figure out that it was about getters by more for your time, not finding ways to get more time, something like this gets proposed.

MATT, FATT, PATT, or whoever it is that hates tired truck drivers can push to get our hours down even further for all I care.

When a driver starts their day at 0500, the last thing they need is some stupid new law stretching their day out to 2200, just so some dumbass shipper or receiver can have an excuse to hold trucks up longer.

 

[Electric Chicken]

This is an absolutely horrible idea.

14 hours is long enough. It’s too long. Way too damn long.

Sure, it’s my truck and nobody can force me to extend my day. That said, company drivers, the weak ones (seems to be most of them), would get forced into stretching their days out to please the shippers and help their attempt to drive rates back down.

Just when I was thinking that the trucking industry was starting to figure out that it was about getters by more for your time, not finding ways to get more time, something like this gets proposed.

MATT, FATT, PATT, or whoever it is that hates tired truck drivers can push to get our hours down even further for all I care.

When a driver starts their day at 0500, the last thing they need is some stupid new law stretching their day out to 2200, just so some dumbass shipper or receiver can have an excuse to hold trucks up longer.

Thank you. It sucks that so many people don't understand this, particularly the dumbasses it would screw over directly.

I've got a spine so I'm not worried about me. I'm worried about being tangled up with the jellyfish in the lane beside me who can't control it anymore because he's even more dogged than a normal truck driver.

I had a 13 hour shift last night because of the snow. THAT was enough.

 

[Ontario Outlaw]

I don't understand. It's 3 hours off duty, that isn't mandatory.

You don't "HAVE" to use it.

You don't "HAVE" to make it a 17 hour day.

But it "COULD" help save your 70, and "COULD" help you extend your 14 to get parked or what have you. I didn't read if it was a 3 hour minimum, like I said if it was in voluntary 30 minute increments I'm all for it.

A couple extra hours drive time be cool, too

 

[Mike]

I had a 13 hour shift last night because of the snow. THAT was enough.

I had a 13 hour shift today because I chose to sit on the load I took home until this morning, rather than leaving the house yesterday. Drove 360 miles to deliver that load in Memphis, located another load to pickup after that, and drove til an hour was left on my clock to get to the Loves in Matthews, MO.

500 mile days are harsh!

 

[Mike]

I don't understand. It's 3 hours off duty, that isn't mandatory.

You don't "HAVE" to use it.

You don't "HAVE" to make it a 17 hour day.

But it "COULD" help save your 70, and "COULD" help you extend your 14 to get parked or what have you. I didn't read if it was a 3 hour minimum, like I said if it was in voluntary 30 minute increments I'm all for it.

A couple extra hours drive time be cool, too

Which takes us right back to dispatchers pushing drivers. Doesn’t matter if it is voluntary or not, if the option is there, the majority of drivers will get forced into it.

And yeah, let’s add driving hours as well. Let’s go right back to chasing miles for less money.

The maximum hours have always been optional, nobody is legally forced I run to the limits. Somehow, company trucks are constantly pushed to those maximum limits.

 

[Ontario Outlaw]

Which takes us right back to dispatchers pushing drivers. Doesn’t matter if it is voluntary or not, if the option is there, the majority of drivers will get forced into it.

And yeah, let’s add driving hours as well. Let’s go right back to chasing miles for less money.

The maximum hours have always been optional, nobody is legally forced I run to the limits. Somehow, company trucks are constantly pushed to those maximum limits.

I've never been pushed. I've had stupid runs that unforeseen incidents have forced the day to be a bit long.

That's a lot different than dispatch coercion.

If I have more hours in a day, off duty and drive time/on duty, that does "NOT" mean I "HAVE" to work those hours

But it gives me flexibility

As I've posted, sometimes a Wednesday load is FUBARed. So ya gotta hustle Thursday get loaded Friday. Nothing says you can't relax Saturday and Sunday to compensate.

I'm not asking for more hours for the sake of more hours. I want flexibility. I'm a big boy I know when I can run and when I need to shut down

 

[joseph1135]

Can we also add unpaid time.
More free time for shippers and receivers. This takes the weight off them instead of making them get on the ball.

 

[Hillbilly Canuck]

I don't understand. It's 3 hours off duty, that isn't mandatory.

You don't "HAVE" to use it.

You don't "HAVE" to make it a 17 hour day.

But it "COULD" help save your 70, and "COULD" help you extend your 14 to get parked or what have you. I didn't read if it was a 3 hour minimum, like I said if it was in voluntary 30 minute increments I'm all for it.

A couple extra hours drive time be cool, too

I dunno the way it reads I didn't think it was clear if they meant you needed 3 hours off duty just to stop the clock at all or if they were doing something similar to our 16 hour rule.

Shippers will try to **** you regardless. I don't find them to be much better different worse or whatever here than the US despite the rules.

It would give you the OPTION to get a little further down the road IF the shippers continue their bullshit which they most likely will. They won't care about anything till it costs them significant amounts of money.

If you don't have the spine to not say "Yes sir." to whatever comes down the pipe that's on you REGARDLESS of what the rules are.

 

[Ontario Outlaw]

Can we also add unpaid time.
More free time for shippers and receivers. This takes the weight off them instead of making them get on the ball.

It's "off duty".

Detention follows the truck.

Stay "on duty"

 

[Ontario Outlaw]

I dunno the way it reads I didn't think it was clear if they meant you needed 3 hours off duty just to stop the clock at all or if they were doing something similar to our 16 hour rule.

Shippers will try to **** you regardless. I don't find them to be much better different worse or whatever here than the US despite the rules.

It would give you the OPTION to get a little further down the road IF the shippers continue their bullshit which they most likely will. They won't care about anything till it costs them significant amounts of money.

If you don't have the spine to not say "Yes sir." to whatever comes down the pipe that's on you REGARDLESS of what the rules are.

And, regardless which side you fall on, it's the drivers choice to choose when he wants to park. I'm not loaded? I'm leaving. Be back in the morning.

With that said I'm still arguing with my carrier over detention. I'm all for squealing for detention but I'm getting the run around. I'm all for charging the shipper obscene amounts of money.

 

[joseph1135]

I

It's "off duty".

Detention follows the truck.

Stay "on duty"

You’re right. But how many OTR drivers get paid for ON DUTY time? Not many. I know I don’t. Instead of giving time away to the shippers and receivers, how about forcing the issue to get their jobs done and get us on the road. E-logs or not, waiting for hours at customers creates fatigued drivers. I’m not for extending my work day any more. 14 hours is enough.

 

[Mike]

I've never been pushed. I've had stupid runs that unforeseen incidents have forced the day to be a bit long.

That's a lot different than dispatch coercion.

If I have more hours in a day, off duty and drive time/on duty, that does "NOT" mean I "HAVE" to work those hours

But it gives me flexibility

As I've posted, sometimes a Wednesday load is FUBARed. So ya gotta hustle Thursday get loaded Friday. Nothing says you can't relax Saturday and Sunday to compensate.

I'm not asking for more hours for the sake of more hours. I want flexibility. I'm a big boy I know when I can run and when I need to shut down

Yes, you haven't been pushed, you are a big boy. I am as well.

Doesn't change the fact that every company out here, and many owner operators included, will run every mile and work every extra hour possible to rack up as many miles as possible, rather than do the right thing and push to get more money for every minute of their actual time spent working.

You yourself complain about no detention pay and appointments not being honored. You are being sent from place to place with no guaranteed pay for your lost time. Fight to get paid for that lost time rather than looking for more time to get you out of a jam that the people who manage your truck put you in. More hours simply mean more free time spent at the docks by the majority of trucks. We don't need this.

 

[Injun]

Which takes us right back to dispatchers pushing drivers. Doesn’t matter if it is voluntary or not, if the option is there, the majority of drivers will get forced into it.

And yeah, let’s add driving hours as well. Let’s go right back to chasing miles for less money.

The maximum hours have always been optional, nobody is legally forced I run to the limits. Somehow, company trucks are constantly pushed to those maximum limits.

I worked for Swift as a company driver and with them as a lease-op. I was never pushed to run a 14 hour day. Swift's loads are set up so you almost can't help but make them on time. I found myself shutting down, on most runs, with ample time left on my clocks. The 14 comes into play when the driver dilly-dallies his butt through his day, stopping for an hour here, two hours there, oh, crap, gotta get to XYZ before O-Dark:30.

Prime....wouldn't have been such an issue if their shippers would have the loads ready when they said they would. But, grocery, so I guess it is what it is. Obviously, I'm not with Prime anymore, haven't been for years, so it might be different now. I doubt it, but there is always distant hope.

Again, though, there is nothing that forces anybody to go past their abilities except their own ego.

 

[Mike]

Again, though, there is nothing that forces anybody to go past their abilities except their own ego.

No, but you know this industry is full of weak people who will allow themselves to be pushed by dispatchers. It hurts us all, even those of us who don't allow ourselves to be pushed around.

We don't need an addition to 14 hours. Why does anybody want to work more hours than that, ever?

 

[Injun]

No, but you know this industry is full of weak people who will allow themselves to be pushed by dispatchers. It hurts us all, even those of us who don't allow ourselves to be pushed around.

We don't need an addition to 14 hours. Why does anybody want to work more hours than that, ever?

This proposed rule basically puts us back to the 5-5-5-5 routine everybody has been wanting back. The reason the minimum break that stops the 14 is three hours is so they have time for a nap or whatever. They can take a five hour break if they want to. Or a six. Or whatever, as long as it's at least three hours. If a driver doesn't want to count time at a customer as off duty, even though it is legal to do so, his 14 will not be interrupted. Knowing Swift, Schneider and a few others, drivers will not be allowed to use this new rule. Didn't Schneider have a company policy that their drivers couldn't use the 8/2 split? Dispatchers won't be able to push drivers because the companies don't want the liability.