ADHERENCE TO CSA 2010 CAUSES DRIVERS TO BE PRESSURED BY CARRIERS TO VOLUNTARY QUIT JOBS OR BE FIRED

[STEPCHILD1]

I've been driving tractor trailers in the industry since 1990.

Used to, all a truck driver had to worry about is keeping their logbook straight and not speeding, having an collision or becoming not medically fit.

If there was something wrong with the unit like lights, annual inspection, tires, registration etc. being not in order, the Motor Carriers had the greatest penalty and weight to correct these item.

Used to, if I found myself working for a Carrier where I was being forced to drive a vehicle with violations, that the Carrier would not correct timely after I had repeatedly wrote up said vehicle. Then I could stop at the D.O.T. Scales and have truck enforcement, force the Carrier to comply with no negative action taken towards me by D.O.T. to resolve the issue.

Now since CSA 2010 has come in effect, I have to refused to drive the commercial vehicle until the Carrier correct violations I write up.

Now if I take faulty vehicle to D.O.T. Scales and have truck enforcement, force the Carrier to comply, negative action is still taken towards me too, resulting in points on my record thereby jeopardizing my livelihood.

I have to attempt to protect my livelihood by not get points on my record or causing a fatality on the roadways.

But now after governing myself this way, I'm finding that once I keep refusing to drive a faulty vehicle and adhere to D.O.T. highway safety regulations, I am constantly talk down to Cust at and my miles, hrs or home time, are being cut as retaliation by the Carriers thereby pressuring me to quit my job voluntarily or they are making up something that didn't happen to terminate me from my job.

When I complaint to the Department of Labor or FMCSA nothing happens favorable for me.

Is there any other drivers out there having these problems are may have serious suggestions for me?

 

[mndriver]

how do you get points on your drivers record?

 

[GAnthony]

I've been driving tractor trailers in the industry since 1990.

Used to, all a truck driver had to worry about is keeping their logbook straight and not speeding, having an collision or becoming not medically fit.

If there was something wrong with the unit like lights, annual inspection, tires, registration etc. being not in order, the Motor Carriers had the greatest penalty and weight to correct these item.

Used to, if I found myself working for a Carrier where I was being forced to drive a vehicle with violations, that the Carrier would not correct timely after I had repeatedly wrote up said vehicle. Then I could stop at the D.O.T. Scales and have truck enforcement, force the Carrier to comply with no negative action taken towards me by D.O.T. to resolve the issue.

Now since CSA 2010 has come in effect, I have to refused to drive the commercial vehicle until the Carrier correct violations I write up.

Now if I take faulty vehicle to D.O.T. Scales and have truck enforcement, force the Carrier to comply, negative action is still taken towards me too, resulting in points on my record thereby jeopardizing my livelihood.

I have to attempt to protect my livelihood by not get points on my record or causing a fatality on the roadways.

But now after governing myself this way, I'm finding that once I keep refusing to drive a faulty vehicle and adhere to D.O.T. highway safety regulations, I am constantly talk down to Cust at and my miles, hrs or home time, are being cut as retaliation by the Carriers thereby pressuring me to quit my job voluntarily or they are making up something that didn't happen to terminate me from my job.

When I complaint to the Department of Labor or FMCSA nothing happens favorable for me.

Is there any other drivers out there having these problems are may have serious suggestions for me?

the dept of labor pretty much only helps in wages, not much else. you work x number of hours, you get paid x number of dollars.

never quit voluntarily, make'em fire you. when you voluntarily quit, you ruin your chances to collect unemployment. even if fired, many say you cannot collect unemployment, that is false.

 

[ironpony]

Drive for a carrier that won't throw you under the bus.

 

[Mike]

Been a few lawsuits won already by drivers who did their job and refused to drive faulty equipment.

 

[Cargo Commando]

I've been driving tractor trailers in the industry since 1990.

Used to, all a truck driver had to worry about is keeping their logbook straight and not speeding, having an collision or becoming not medically fit.

If there was something wrong with the unit like lights, annual inspection, tires, registration etc. being not in order, the Motor Carriers had the greatest penalty and weight to correct these item.

Used to, if I found myself working for a Carrier where I was being forced to drive a vehicle with violations, that the Carrier would not correct timely after I had repeatedly wrote up said vehicle. Then I could stop at the D.O.T. Scales and have truck enforcement, force the Carrier to comply with no negative action taken towards me by D.O.T. to resolve the issue.

Now since CSA 2010 has come in effect, I have to refused to drive the commercial vehicle until the Carrier correct violations I write up.

Now if I take faulty vehicle to D.O.T. Scales and have truck enforcement, force the Carrier to comply, negative action is still taken towards me too, resulting in points on my record thereby jeopardizing my livelihood.

I have to attempt to protect my livelihood by not get points on my record or causing a fatality on the roadways.

But now after governing myself this way, I'm finding that once I keep refusing to drive a faulty vehicle and adhere to D.O.T. highway safety regulations, I am constantly talk down to Cust at and my miles, hrs or home time, are being cut as retaliation by the Carriers thereby pressuring me to quit my job voluntarily or they are making up something that didn't happen to terminate me from my job.

When I complaint to the Department of Labor or FMCSA nothing happens favorable for me.

Is there any other drivers out there having these problems are may have serious suggestions for me?

I didn't go as far as you, but I too worked for a shitty small company. When I showed up for orientation, I was surprised by the OOS trailers in the boneyard. My mistake was this assumption as those trailers were IN SERVICE. Took 2 wks of me yanking that crap around to tell them to **** off. I paid for trailer inspections on everything I hauled - not 1 passed inspection.

 

[STEPCHILD1]

Drive for a carrier that won't throw you under the bus.

Which one? I've found each one of them are the same.

 

[STEPCHILD1]

how do you get points on your drivers record?

Since CSA 2010 came into play a driver accumulates points for all violations they get. And the point follow you to any Motor Carrier you go to work for.

Too many points can keep you from landing a really good driving job because if the company hires you it will bring the company's overall CSA 2010 score down

10 Point Violations

Reckless driving - 392.2
Speeding 15 or more mph - 392.2
Speeding in construction zones - 392.2
Driving after being declared out of service - 395.13
Driver uses or is in possession of drugs - 392.4
Violating an out-of-service order for improper alcohol use - 392.5


8 Point Violations

Unqualified driver - 391.11



7 Point Violations

Speeding 11 to 14 mph - 392.2
Adverse driving condition violations (Alaska) - 395.1


5 Point Violations

Failure to obey a traffic control device - 392.2
Following too close - 392.2
Improper lane change - 392.2
Improper passing - 392.2
Railroad grade crossing violation -392.2
Improper turns - 392.2
Failure to yield the right-of-way - 392.2
Bus failing to stop at a railroad crossing - 392.10
Chlorine load failing to stop at a railroad crossing - 392.10
Placard load failing to stop at a railroad crossing - 392.10
Failing to use caution in hazardous conditions - 392.14
Using or equipping a radar detector in a CMV - 392.71
Driver is in possession of, currently using, or under the influence of alcohol in the 4 hour immediately preceding coming on-duty - 392.5


4 Point Violations

Speeding between 6 and 10 miles per hour (mph) - 392.2
Operating as an interstate driver under the age of 21 - 391.11
Non-English speaking driver - 391.11
Failure to understand English language so as to decipher road signs and signals - 391.11


2 Point Violations

Lacking physical qualifications - 391.11

 

[mndriver]

Wow.

I'm more inclined to say someone is seriously misunderstanding the program.

Nothing a driver has done with a previous company has followed them to my own.

Even if you do follow the program, the feds admit, the personal score is purely experimental and not used against the driver.

As a driver, I can't even get my own "score" from fmcsa as there is nothing to get.

As a motor Carrier, I can't even get something that doesn't exist.

Top Five Myths among Drivers regarding CSA and Violations

 

[ironpony]

Yep.

The only CSA information a carrier has access to is the PSP report, which is a listing of moving violations that resulted in a federal commercial vehicle inspection.

If you aren't driving outside of the limits of the law, that will be clean.

 

[Ranger_375]

Which one? I've found each one of them are the same.

Knight ain't perfect by any means, but if you find a trailer that has issues... mention it to your dm and you will get routed to a company shop if its non road worthy stuff like a broken hinge or something. Road worthy issues, they will have road service come fix. Same with your truck. Lights and such you are supplied to replace on trailers, and if you hit up the parts desk you will get replenished. I keep and bring with, the burnt lights so I know exactly what I used and get exactly what I need for a full kit.

If trucks are broke when you get assigned, enough reporting of issues and shop visits will either fix the problems, or get you shifted into a better truck while they keep thst one home to sell it off or send it to a dealer to do in depth debugging of whatever gripes you had.

 

[mndriver]

Yep.

The only CSA information a carrier has access to is the PSP report, which is a listing of moving violations that resulted in a federal commercial vehicle inspection.

If you aren't driving outside of the limits of the law, that will be clean.

The only information on your PSP is what is reported by member companies. That's it. Any "CSA Score" right now is purely an experimental program and not even available to law enforcement.

There are third party groups and companies that, they themselves are creating driver scores, but NOT the FMCSA.

•Sometimes, third parties will use available safety information to create a “score,” which some call a “CSA driver scorecard,” or “CSA score.” It is very important to know that FMCSA DOES NOT issue a “CSA driver scorecard” or “CSA score” for drivers. Any “CSA score” or “CSA driver scorecard” has NOT BEEN ISSUED OR ENDORSED by the Federal or State government.

Make sure your angst and efforts are directed at the correct people.

 

[ironpony]

The only information on your PSP is what is reported by member companies. That's it. Any "CSA Score" right now is purely an experimental program and not even available to law enforcement.

There are third party groups and companies that, they themselves are creating driver scores, but NOT the FMCSA.

You're thing of a DAC report, that's operated under the rules of the Fair Credit Reporting Act. "Member Companies" can report whatever they like, and you have to dispute incorrect information (lies) to get the record corrected.

The PSP is a report on the driver that's authorized under CSA. The only data contained in drivers PSP report is based on federal inspection reports.

From the FMCSA FAQ page:

The Pre-Employment Screening Program (PSP) allows carriers, individual drivers, and industry service providers access to commercial drivers' safety records from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's (FMCSA) Motor Carrier Management Information System (MCMIS). Records are available 24 hours a day via the PSP website.

A PSP record contains a driver’s most recent 5 years of crash data and the most recent 3 years of roadside inspection data from the FMCSA MCMIS database. The record displays a snapshot in time, based on the most recent MCMIS data load to the PSP system. A new snapshot is uploaded approximately once per month. The current snapshot date is posted on the PSP home page.

 

[mndriver]

resulting in points on my record thereby jeopardizing my livelihood.

OP original statement.

NOTHING in PSP generates a score against the driver. Any CSA score is generated by a company or 3rd party service provider.

That's the point I am trying to make.

 

[STEPCHILD1]

OP original statement.

NOTHING in PSP generates a score against the driver. Any CSA score is generated by a company or 3rd party service provider.

That's the point I am trying to make.

I believe I said drivers accumulate points and Carriers protect its score.

Please read:

The Pre-Employment Screening Program (PSP) was created by the FMCSA in an effort to streamline information accessibility and increase the safety of both drivers and carriers. PSP allows for a driver's safety performance information to be readily available electronically. They are often incorrectly referred to as driver CSA scores.

Listed under the Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act, PSP was mandated by Congress. This information is accessible by potential employers, industry service providers and drivers. Effectively, the program provides a snapshot of a commercial driver’s safety record that can be used as a reference by potential employees.

Here are some facts about the Pre-Employment Screening Program:

1. What is PSP?
PSP stands for Pre-Employment Screening Program (PSP). Established in 2010, this program allows prospective carriers, industry personnel and drivers review drivers’ safety records from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration’s (FMCSA) Motor Carrier Management Information System (MCMIS).

2. How does PSP affect me as a driver?
As a driver, your PSP record includes the most recent 5 years of crash data and the most recent 3 years of roadside inspection data from the FMCSA and MCMIS database.

This should translate to job security and the likelihood of a driver being hired with an excellent PSP record as opposed to one that does not.

3. How does PSP affect carriers?
As a carrier inquiring into a PSP record would be much like doing a reference check for a prospective employee. A driver with an excellent PSP record should translate into fewer potential driver issues, anticipated performance expectations and above all due diligence in hiring the best person for the job.

4. Why does PSP matter?
It is important to be vigilant of your PSP record because it is your business-wide reference check. It is also important to know your PSP record status to ensure it’s accuracy to make sure your record is up to date.

Keeping drivers with excellent PSP records on the road allows drivers and carriers to ensure quality and optimal work performance. Therefore, improving productivity and safety for everyone.

5. Can anyone access my PSP scores?
No. The user must give consent to allow another account holder (i.e. potential employer) access to your scores.

6. Is it mandatory to use the PSP program as a driver or a potential hiring company?
No. The PSP program is voluntary for both drivers and carriers.

While the PSP program is not mandatory there is something to be said about transparency when applying for a job. Also, if you have an excellent driving record why not put that front and center for your potential employer?

7. How do I access my PSP?
For $10 you can get a copy of your PSP record from the FMCSA’s PSP web portal. Before you start the process be aware that you will also need to provide your current driver’s license number as well as each driver’s license number you’ve held in the last five years. Alternatively you can get a free copy by submitting a privacy act request directly to the FMCSA.

8. How carriers access my PSP?
A carrier must enroll for a PSP account in order to be granted access to the PSP online service. It is important to remember that any request they make for PSP reports must have the driver’s consent.

 

[STEPCHILD1]

Knight ain't perfect by any means, but if you find a trailer that has issues... mention it to your dm and you will get routed to a company shop if its non road worthy stuff like a broken hinge or something. Road worthy issues, they will have road service come fix. Same with your truck. Lights and such you are supplied to replace on trailers, and if you hit up the parts desk you will get replenished. I keep and bring with, the burnt lights so I know exactly what I used and get exactly what I need for a full kit.

If trucks are broke when you get assigned, enough reporting of issues and shop visits will either fix the problems, or get you shifted into a better truck while they keep thst one home to sell it off or send it to a dealer to do in depth debugging of whatever gripes you had.

Yes, I've tried them and was commanded to operate a chemical Hazmat loaded trailer with two flat tires side by side on the same axle which is a no no.

 

[STEPCHILD1]

Yep.

The only CSA information a carrier has access to is the PSP report, which is a listing of moving violations that resulted in a federal commercial vehicle inspection.

If you aren't driving outside of the limits of the law, that will be clean.

CSA stands for Compliance, Safety, Accountability, and is an FMCSA initiative that was introduced to improve the overall safety of commercial motor vehicles. Launched in December 2010, it is a safety enforcement program based on carrier performance and driven by the data collected on them. The CSA program is meant to allow the FMCSA to put a more intense focus on companies that pose the highest safety risks on the roads.

The ultimate goal of the CSA program is to make the roads safer for both carriers and the public. To achieve this, both motor carriers and drivers are held accountable for their role in safety. Through compliance with safety rules, motor carriers and drivers should be able to identify and rectify potential safety concerns before they cause harm.

How CSA scores are calculated
A company’s safety data is collected from roadside inspections, crash reports, investigation results and registration details. All this data is then made available on the FMCSA’s Safety Management System (SMS) website, which is updated on a monthly basis.

The SMS takes into consideration the amount, severity and date of any violations, inspections or crashes a carrier has been involved in. There is more weight given to violations that are more recent, and after two years violations are removed from the record. Also, crashes are weighted based on severity, so a crash involving a fatality or injury has more impact on your score than one that just required a tow.

This data is broken down into seven different categories. These categories are called Behavior Analysis and Safety Improvement Categories (BASICs) and they cover:

Unsafe Driving – Dangerous or careless operation of a vehicle including unsafe driving practices like speeding, improper land changes and failure to wear a seat belt
Crash Indicator – History of crash involvement based on state-reported crashes (not publicly available)
Hours of Service (HOS) Compliance – Incidents of vehicle operation by drivers who are ill, fatigued or in noncompliance with HOS regulations including driver log violations
Vehicle Maintenance – Mechanical defects and failure to make required repairs as well as improper load securing
Controlled Substance/Alcohol – Impaired driving through the use of alcohol, illegal drugs and misuse over the counter and prescription drugs
Hazardous Materials Compliance – Unsafe or incorrect handling of hazardous materials including leaking containers, improper placarding and missing shipping papers (not publicly available)
Driver Fitness – Vehicles operated by drivers who are unfit due to lack of training, experience or medical conditions
With this data categorized, the SMS then groups carriers, with the same range of safety events, together by each BASIC. It will rank all carriers and assign them a percentile from 0 – 100. Carriers are then prioritized for interventions based on how they performed, with the highest percentiles being the worse scores. Improving scores in any of the BASICs comes from new inspections that are violation free.

CSA scores are also made publicly available, however, the public do not have access to the Crash Indicator or Hazardous Materials Compliance BASICs.

 

[STEPCHILD1]

In years past, trucking companies pushed drivers to run over the HOS rules and many other violations, showing complete disregard for their safety and health.

Now, with the recent implementation of the CSA, this practice is coming back to bite them. Drivers, loyal to their motor carrier for years, are now being terminated due to a high severity weight score on their pre-employment screening program (PSP).

The most recent email received states:

“I was recently let go by my company because of my csa points. All the points were do to problems with the equipment, which I would report to the company, but was told to “get moving” anyway. Now, after 16 years of driving, I’m out of work.”

As drivers are now discovering, this is a big problem with the CSA. Even though the violations were due to the carrier’s equipment (this falls under the 7 BASICS, specifically the Vehicle Maintenance BASIC), the driver will be found to be in violation, as well as the carrier, raising the motor carrier’s “unsafe” safety score.

There are two measurement systems under the CSA:

DSMS – Driver Safety Measurement Systems
CSMS – Carrier Safety Measurement Systems
The two go hand in hand, meaning that points received by a driver, also will go against the carrier. This is the FMCSA’s idea of making both parties, the driver and the motor carrier, equally responsible for safety. As we are seeing already, this is proving to be another injustice to the professional truck driver. Drivers are reporting in that due to their PSP points, their jobs are being lost and other carriers refuse to re-hire.

This email correlates the truck driver PSP with the HireRight DAC report . . . a prediction I made several months before the implementation of this program:

“After six years with my carrier, I was terminated because of my PSP score showing a “little too high” for their “standards.” Forget the fact that they tried to run me in the ground, violating every rule out there, but now, because of them and trying to be a good employee and getting the job done, they fire me because of my PSP record! Applying with other carriers, they all want to pull my PSP first. I know that they can not pull my PSP without my consent, but this is a farce of the FMCSA as well. If I give them my permission, they’ll see the points and most likely, not hire me. If I refuse my consent, what do you think will happen? They won’t hire me either. This PSP is nothing more than another DAC report which will be used to destroy good drivers’ careers.”

Every driver should be aware of the points that can accumulate from violations and effect their PSP score:

How to get a copy of your PSP records

To purchase a copy› of your PSP records
To file a challenge› with DataQ about the accuracy of information on your PSP (Registration Required)
This is the new standard for hiring drivers. As the FMCSA website clearly points out:

“The program helps motor carriers make more informed hiring decisions by providing electronic access to a driver’s crash and inspection history from the FMCSA Motor Carrier Management Information System (MCMIS).”

Sound a lot like DAC . . . doesn’t it?

The severity weight system can be found on pages 78 through 118 of the CSA Safety Measurement System (SMS) Methodology. Another driver recently advised us that he had stopped for the day and after setting the brakes, the truck began to roll. Marking this brake issue on his post-trip inspection, he was then fired by the carrier. The FMCSA has created another demon for the professional truck driver.

There is no set maximum points that a driver can reach before being deemed unsafe and terminated. This figure is at the sole discretion of the individual motor carrier. Points attained will not show up on the PSP report. The PSP will only show the violations and you must then cross-check them with the points shown on the SMS. There are 3rd party companies such as Vigillo, LLC which provide comprehensive data analytics, providing drivers with a CSA scorecard. Another example of a money-maker business created from the CSA.

Data collected for the two measurement systems basically come from four sources:

Roadside inspections
Violations that have already been recorded
State reported commercial vehicle crash data
Motor carrier census data
Violations that DOT and law enforcement have ignored in the past, such as driving with a flat tire or having a marker light out, are now being enforced and citations given out. As an example, operating a CMV on a flat tire will add eight points to your PSP . . . having a marker light out will give you two points. If you’re caught texting while driving, you will be hit with ten points, the highest amount given, which by the way, is the same given for reckless driving.

Remember, it’s not only points you’ll receive, but you will still have the fine to pay as well. The CSA has given law enforcement the key to a huge money-making program to help bring in much needed revenue for states.

The number for a “maximum points” level that is being thrown around is sixty, but again, there is no set maximum points that a driver can reach before facing possible termination. The carrier can determine if it’s sixty or six . . . it’s at their discretion. Although motor carriers created the atmosphere which resulted in drivers obtaining violations in the past, they are ignoring this fact and now using the PSP as the reason for the termination of drivers.

Furthermore, the entire CSA issue, I believe, falls right in line with setting the stage for the recent cross border trucking agreement. Before an employer in the U. S. can hire a foreign worker, they must first apply for a Foreign Labor Certification. However, before they can receive the certification, they must first show that there are insufficient qualified U. S. workers available and willing to perform the work at the present wage. This is to ensure that admitting foreign workers will not affect job opportunities, wages and working conditions for the American people, in this case . . . the American trucker.

As the PSP is being used by motor carriers to terminate drivers for violations that the carrier pushed for and allowed to occur in the past, it now gives the trucking industry a reason to allow foreign workers into the United States: there is now a shortage of qualified, American truck drivers. Get it?

As a California law firm establishes the first DAC Report Class Action Registry, attorneys should take notice of the truck driver PSP program. The truck driver PSP is quickly shaping up to be another DAC report to be used by the carriers against the professional truck driver.

 

[Ranger_375]

Yes, I've tried them and was commanded to operate a chemical Hazmat loaded trailer with two flat tires side by side on the same axle which is a no no.

Horse feces

 

[mndriver]

PSP doesn't create the CSA score.

The motorcarrier or a 3rd party does. NOT FMCSA.