The "Diesel Doctor" DO NOT USE Performance Diesel!!

95IH9400

Well-Known Member
If you are ever in the Quad Cities, or in Effingham IL, look up the "Diesel Doctor" Trust me, you are WASTING MONEY if you use PDI, or Pitts Power! I sent my ECM to PDI last April. They told me that I would be putting down 550 RWHP. And, I was supposed to get more fuel economy. Well, that never happened! But, I did see a little more power, and my turbo boost went up from 27 psi, to 48 psi. I paid over $2000.00 plus shipping both ways for this!

Well, I heard his sister on the CB one day, at the Quad Cities, but couldn't really hear what she was saying. She did give a phone number-217-994-1831. So I called, and talked to Trent. He told me that they're 'mobile' now, and can do everything wherever you are! They come to YOU! You don't have to be laid up, sending in your ECM, and waiting for it to come back. So, today I had a run to Muscatine, so I stopped there on the way back. His sister hooked up the laptop, and noticed a bunch of stuff wrong. There was turbo 'lag', and the HP was ONLY 475! NOT the over 600 I was promised by PDI! So, with Trent on her phone, she upped my HP to 500 (now, Trent says I can stop back FOR FREE, and she'll up it to 550HP!), and upped my torque to 1850. And, they did a test, in which the truck has to be running, and the computer takes over the ECM, and boosts up the idle to 1000 for the tests. Well, that worked! When I told Trent that PDI told me the program was more like a 'ghost' program, or it was hidden from dealers, Trent told me that if that was the case, then the rpm test wouldn't work. So, the only thing Trent thinks they did, was to raise the rail pressure, so my turbo boost goes up more.

And, they can do just about EVERYTHING PDI, or Pitts Power can!

And, I hope you are sitting down, and not eating, or drinking anything when you read how much they charge:

TOTAL FOR EVERYTHING: $300.00! That's right: THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS!! NOT the two grand or more than the other guys charge! And, like I said, if there is any 'tweaking' that you want done, they will do it FOR FREE!

The next time I'm going to Muscatine, I'm stopping back there, and having her up the HP to 550. Trent said that they have to play with it a little, because if they set it too high, higher than the rail pressure or something, then the ECM won't read it, and it will go back to the 'factory setting'.

They're really good with Detroit's, and Cat's. He said that Cummins are tricky, and there might be some additional tweaking, but he can get it where you want it. He's telling me that I should see around 1 mpg, which is what I was supposed to get with PDI, but never did! I didn't even see ANY improvement in mpg's with them!

Now, the funny thing, is when I called PDI to complain, Matt said that the program is 'hidden', so that the dealers won't see it, and reset it back to factory. But, when I asked him what program is out there that can actually see what they did, all he said was that it's "proprietary"! He said he can't tell me, or else I'll go to the Diesel Doctor, and tell him! And, when I told him that I was promised the 1 mpg more, all he said was they don't guarantee ANY mpg improvement at all! All he said, was to have my truck dyno'd, and then I'll see the 20% improvement in HP. But, wait, they told me I'm supposed to have 550 RWHP, so wouldn't that be a LOT more than 20%? So, basically, he told me that I should trust them, and the program IS in my ECM, even though NO ONE can see it! Mmm, OK, I guess I'm just supposed to trust him, after giving him over 2 grand of my money!

She also reset the injector codes for all of them to be at 75. Now, the truck runs SMMOOOOTHH!!! A gigantic improvement over the PDI "tune" (if you want to call it that!). It's not a huge jump in HP, but she did up the torque 300, and even though I really didn't pull any hills, the few small ones I did pull, I didn't loose any speed on, with the cruise set. I can't wait until I go back to Muscatine, so I can pull the big hill going back into town, from the south (I pick up south of town). She did a few other things I really can't explain, but the nice thing, is that I was looking over her shoulder the WHOLE TIME, and saw exactly what she was doing! There was nothing that was done, that wasn't explained by either her, or Trent.

I'm sorry that this isn't more crafted, but I'm remembering things as I type. I guess the point I'm making, is that you need to call Trent, if you're ever in the Quad Cities (where his sister lives), or in Effingham, IL.

Again, the phone number is: 217-994-1831. He's been in the business over 14 years, so he's no 'fly by night' operation!

I can't stress enough to NOT waste your money, at PDI. Because, Matt over there says to just 'trust him', and he'll put his 'proprietary' tune in you ECM, for only SEVEN TIMES MORE MONEY than Trent will charge you!

John
 
So what PDI shop did you use? There are a bunch of so called dealers that sale programs for PDI. I have one and [MENTION=9052]That guy[/MENTION] uses one. We both have well over 650 RWHP. We both had ares done by the same guy.

Sounds like what Diesel Dummy did for you was a simple rerate with a factory program that CAT would have done for about the same money.
Now your problem is a CAT dealer wont touch your motor until it is set back to factory specs because its an unauthorized rerate from an outside source other than CAT.

What PDI did to mine cant be seen unless the ECM is sent to CAT in Ill or by doing a dyno run. The CAT shop that I do business with has looked at mine and other then the tool mark from the computer is left behind when it was setup they cant see where anything has be touched, same fuel table settings, same injector codes...all factory settings.

And what do you mean you had all your injectors set at 75?

Sorry....looks like you got nothing more than a rerate.
 
I'm pretty sure 95IH9400 has a Detroit.

Here be's an older post of his.

i see that your truck is a 95 ? and only pulling 26-27 lbs boost? it should be ddec 3 ? When i pulled my 500 ddec3 out with 1 mill on it it was pulling 39lbs boost. and that is with factory tuning. different injector codes advance the timing in tune up.

Actually, the truck is a '95, but the engine is a crate rebuilt '04, with a DDEC IV Computer. Will that make any difference with the turbo boost settings?

John
 
I didn't use a 'dealer' per se, but I did call Terry's truck and trailer, in Dyersville, IA (who is one of their dealers), and he suggested to the main office, that they use a "3/4 tune", as I didn't want to spend the money, and get a bigger turbo. But, the ECM was taken off by my mechanic, and then I shipped it off to PDI (next day air), they reprogrammed it, and shipped it back to me, next day air. Surprisingly enough, their version of next day air was much more expensive than mine, when we both used UPS!

And yes, I have a 12.7 Detroit, not a CAT.

And, before I sent PDI the ECM, the 2004 factory rebuild DDEC IV (non EGR) engine was only pulling 27 psi of boost. When I got it back, it then was pulling 38 psi of boost.

I asked Trent, what was the reason for setting all the injectors at 75, instead of the proper codes, and his response was that the codes were basically for emissions. He said that a lot of people think that if all the injectors are set at a high number, then the fuel mileage will suffer. He said that's not true. He said that you want the injectors to spray the same amount of fuel on all cylinders. He said that one of my injector numbers was at "7". He said that's way too low, and that cylinder is not getting enough fuel. All I know, is that now my truck runs really SMOOTH, and it doesn't sound, or feel like it has a "miss" to it anymore. He also said that it might take 100 or more miles, before it really smooths out, as the lower injectors have to get used to spraying more fuel again, and possibly clean themselves out some. Even dumb-dumb at PDI basically told me the same thing. He said that if I ever got an injector replaced, to not worry what the number was set at, that now all the injectors were at the same number. Well, apparently not, as now it runs a LOT smoother than it ever did with the PDI tune.

I had two different turbo lag settings, on two different screens. On both, the lag (it was called something else) numbers were more than they should be, and they said that that is the reason why I have a 'sluggish' acceleration, as the turbo isn't spooling up immediately. Well, now I have much more 'crisper' acceleration, with none of the 'sluggishness' I had before.

She did a lot more, than increase HP, and torque, by going into the different screens, and adjust things that were way off.

And, "Tim", if you think that I'd be lucky to get 475 HP out of a Detroit, then what do you think about PDI's lie that I'm supposedly putting 550 HP to the GROUND? I really don't think so! Talk about 'double talk'. They told me that I'd be putting that kind of power down, but when I talked to them today, he said that I should have at least 20% more HP than factory. Well, is that the 'new math'? If I'm supposedly putting 550 HP to the ground, then what would my flywheel HP be? What is parasitic loss for a tractor? Wouldn't the flywheel HP be substantially more that lets say, 600?

I told PDI, and that Terry from Terry's truck and trailer (PDI's authorized dealer), that I really wasn't interested in a bunch of power, but rather fuel economy. They BOTH promised me 1 mpg, which I have not realized. And, when I talked to Matt at PDI, his response was that they don't guarantee any mpg increase. Of course he'd say that now! He was singing a different tune BEFORE I sent in the ECM! It's been 9 months, and many miles since it was 'done', and I haven't gained any mpg's.

And, I don't care WHAT the ECM says, as I have ONLY my mechanic work on my truck. I have the $5,000 towing policy on my Great West insurance, so I don't care where it breaks down at, I'm getting towed to him! He doesn't care what it says, he works on it anyway! He's probably more than $40/hr CHEAPER than the lowest dealer, and does better work, so I couldn't care less what the ECM says!

I'll be fueling up tomorrow, and as usual, I keep meticulous records of my mpg's. I go as far as fueling up at the same fuel stop (I'm home every night), and even the same pump, as to not worry about being on a different angle, which would affect how much fuel I put in.

John
 
What the Hell is a "3/4 tune"?

Sounds like the guys in high school who would stand around talking **** about what camshaft they just put in their Chevy Small Block. "Yeah, I put a 3/4 race cam in it last Saturday, then went out to the strip and blew everyone's doors off!"

So I would ask these guys how it was they were able to "blow everyone's doors off" with a cam that was only good for 3/4's of a race.

Then they would all look at me like I was from Mars or something, and I would ask them what the lift and duration was, and if they used a degree wheel when they put the damn thing in.

Of course then no one had a freakin' clue what I was talking about, because they were clueless. I doubt that any of them Saturday afternoon wrenches ever even had the front cover off of their little hot rod engines.
 
@95IH9400, the only way you can say for sure what HP you're putting on the ground is to put your truck on the Dyno. Be careful how much you try to pull out of that engine. Detroits (especially the older ones) are tough motors, but it is only a 12.7. You will not be able to get the same results and durability as someone with a 15 liter Cat or Cummins.
 
What the Hell is a "3/4 tune"?

Sounds like the guys in high school who would stand around talking **** about what camshaft they just put in their Chevy Small Block. "Yeah, I put a 3/4 race cam in it last Saturday, then went out to the strip and blew everyone's doors off!"

So I would ask these guys how it was they were able to "blow everyone's doors off" with a cam that was only good for 3/4's of a race.

Then they would all look at me like I was from Mars or something, and I would ask them what the lift and duration was, and if they used a degree wheel when they put the damn thing in.

Of course then no one had a freakin' clue what I was talking about, because they were clueless. I doubt that any of them Saturday afternoon wrenches ever even had the front cover off of their little hot rod engines.

Exactly! What IS a 3/4 tune? And, why can't someone with sophisticated computer software see what was supposedly done? Oh, that's right, it's PROPRIETARY! And, aside from my turbo boost going up, it really didn't feel like it had a ton of power. So, again, we're all just supposed to trust these clowns, that the program is in there, even though no one can see it? My engine runs really smooth now, and I'll be checking the mpg's on the next tank. If there's no increase, then he'll be getting a phone call! At least he's willing to stand by it, and do whatever he can to make me satisfied. As opposed to PDI, who promised me the world, and when they didn't deliver, lied and said that they don't guarantee any mpg improvement!

​John
 
What the Hell is a "3/4 tune"?

Sounds like the guys in high school who would stand around talking **** about what camshaft they just put in their Chevy Small Block. "Yeah, I put a 3/4 race cam in it last Saturday, then went out to the strip and blew everyone's doors off!"

So I would ask these guys how it was they were able to "blow everyone's doors off" with a cam that was only good for 3/4's of a race.

Then they would all look at me like I was from Mars or something, and I would ask them what the lift and duration was, and if they used a degree wheel when they put the damn thing in.

Of course then no one had a freakin' clue what I was talking about, because they were clueless. I doubt that any of them Saturday afternoon wrenches ever even had the front cover off of their little hot rod engines.
When was in high school it was blueprinting. I always asked them what did the blue prints say?:wtf: was the general response.
 

Exactly! What IS a 3/4 tune? And, why can't someone with sophisticated computer software see what was supposedly done? Oh, that's right, it's PROPRIETARY! And, aside from my turbo boost going up, it really didn't feel like it had a ton of power. So, again, we're all just supposed to trust these clowns, that the program is in there, even though no one can see it? My engine runs really smooth now, and I'll be checking the mpg's on the next tank. If there's no increase, then he'll be getting a phone call! At least he's willing to stand by it, and do whatever he can to make me satisfied. As opposed to PDI, who promised me the world, and when they didn't deliver, lied and said that they don't guarantee any mpg improvement!

​John
I don't have to see what's in there to know I got what I paid for. The difference with all my PDI tuned trucks was night and day. There was absolutely no doubt that the HP was there. There's one trucking company here that have spent over $90,000 locally with a dealer getting trucks tuned. A guy can BS about one truck, but no one is going to spend that kind of coin if they don't see a dramatic improvement. They've done about 1/2 of their fleet and it raised the entire fleet average 1mpg.

Don't take this the wrong way but the reason you didn't feel like you had a ton of power, was because you didn't ask for a ton of power. I had one goal when I got mine flashed and that was HP and I choose the file for HP. I was told if I wanted fuel I should choose differently. Anyone that promised you 1mpg is an idiot. Most guys I know get .5 to 1mpg after a tune, some have gotten 2+ mpg because they had a full delete done on a EGR/DPF motor. You screwed up when you let the "Diesel Doctor" flash over your PDI ecm. You just ****ed away $2000 bravo!

Oh and I have a friend with over 1000hp to the ground (dyno proven) but if you hook a "sophisticated computer" to it, it will show 600hp, does that mean he should be ****ed it doesn't show a 1000hp file on the screen when the dyno shows otherwise?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tim
I don't have to see what's in there to know I got what I paid for. The difference with all my PDI tuned trucks was night and day. There was absolutely no doubt that the HP was there. There's one trucking company here that have spent over $90,000 locally with a dealer getting trucks tuned. A guy can BS about one truck, but no one is going to spend that kind of coin if they don't see a dramatic improvement. They've done about 1/2 of their fleet and it raised the entire fleet average 1mpg.

Don't take this the wrong way but the reason you didn't feel like you had a ton of power, was because you didn't ask for a ton of power. I had one goal when I got mine flashed and that was HP and I choose the file for HP. I was told if I wanted fuel I should choose differently. Anyone that promised you 1mpg is an idiot. Most guys I know get .5 to 1mpg after a tune, some have gotten 2+ mpg because they had a full delete done on a EGR/DPF motor. You screwed up when you let the "Diesel Doctor" flash over your PDI ecm. You just ****ed away $2000 bravo!

Oh and I have a friend with over 1000hp to the ground (dyno proven) but if you hook a "sophisticated computer" to it, it will show 600hp, does that mean he should be ****ed it doesn't show a 1000hp file on the screen when the dyno shows otherwise?

Well, then I guess I did just **** away 2 grand! It's not like I noticed any difference with it, and I sure as hell didn't get any mpg improvement! Was 9 months, and over 40,000 miles not enough of a 'break in' period? So, if I did **** it away, I guess I won't miss it any, will I? I think the $300 I spent, I got more for my money, than the 2 grand I ****ed away with PDI! The truck has MORE POWER, and it RUNS SMOOTHER than it EVER did with the PDI tune! And, I keep saying on here that I told both, the moron dealer, and the idiots at PDI that I DID NOT CARE ABOUT GETTING ANY POWER IMPROVEMENT, I WANTED MPG INCREASES!! What part of that don't you understand? I'm happy that all the trucking companies you know, are putting down earth shattering HP. I really couldn't care less! I want FUEL ECONOMY! NOT TONS OF POWER! Why do you think I've still been looking at other options? If I would have gotten my 1 mpg, I'd be HAPPY! But, I have pages of entries in my 'bible', that will show you different! I guess then by your own words, that the dealer, and PDI are idiots, because they DID promise me 1 mpg! When I called PDI to complain, they immediately said that they DO NOT guarantee ANY mpg improvements! Even after I told EVERYONE there that I'm only interested in MPG IMPROVEMENTS, NOT POWER!

At least with the Diesel Doctor, he will STAND BY WHAT HE DID, and not give me 'excuses', like PDI did! He said he will keep fine tuning my ECM, FOR FREE until I get the results I want! I'm even going over there tomorrow (depending on the snow), and she'll up my HP to 550 FOR FREE!

So, I guess out of all this, then I'M the idiot, for listening to their promises, and ****ing away 2 grand for something that I can't see with any computer program, and have to take their word for it, that the program is in there! And, get NO mpg improvement! Yep, shame on me!

​John
 
When was in high school it was blueprinting. I always asked them what did the blue prints say?:wtf: was the general response.

Blueprinting an engine isn't making drawings and then printing them out. Blueprinting is measuring and adjusting every single part to ensure that they all are as close as possible to the size, shape, weight, etc. as they are supposed to be.

All the connecting rods are the same size, shape and weight. The same for the pistons, valves, valvetrain components. Matching the ports for the manifolds, heads, carbs or throttle bodies, and exhaust systems. Taking the time to make each and every valve and valve seat are perfect, and that the valve seats are perfectly blended into the bowl. Using a flow bench and ensuring that all the intake and exhaust runners flow the same. Using a burette and a custom made Lexan plate to check and adjust the CC volume of each combustion chamber.

I have done this to many engines I have built. I have even spent hundreds of hours smoothing and polishing rods and cranks and knife edging the throws on the cranks to reduce the chance of stress risers and facilitate the shedding of oil and reduce windage losses, smoothing and cleaning the inside of engine blocks, and then painting the inside of the crankcase with Glyptal so the oil will move more quickly back to the sump and there is no chance of any casting sand getting loose and ruining an expensive engine. Cleaning every threaded hole, and slightly countersinking each one so there is less chance of the threads pulling out. Inspecting and magnifluxing every part to ensure it is ready to use.

This is what professional engine builders do. Why do you think racing engines cost several times more than brand new cars that the masses drive on the street?
 
Yeah Racer I knew it just meant going through and tightening up production to OEM spec. But like "race cams" most had no clue what it meant.
 
I know of a guy who tried to redo a Vulvo ECM on a 13 liter Vulvo motor.


It didn't end well, from what I understand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tim
I've used the guy (DieselDoc) in Effingham.
He reflashed my ECM for $100 (it's been a while) and I was very happy with the results.
The engine (12.7L) ran smoother, stronger and more economically.

From my own research, PP is the most bang for the buck.
If I understand correctly PDI sells a custom ECM that has to be replaced with a recommended 'spare' when you go in for service because the dealer is obligated to program the ECM to certain REQUIRED OEM &/or EPA parameters.
Which, BTW, is the same reason that your dealer can't or won't upload the same tune as somebody like DieselDoc will.

PP on the other hand can merely be switched off or even completely uninstalled leaving the parameters to the original program.
PP costs about $2400 and will sell on Ebay for $1500 up. So your total investment is about $900 or less.

Bullydog would be my second choice. The cost is about $2800 and they will work until you're satisfied to provide a custom tune by all accounts. Bullydog also has good resale value without the need to replace the ECM although they charge $100 (last I heard) to de-register your ECM so it will work on the next one.


So, to recap,

PDI is $2K (I thought it was more) plus you need a spare ECM which is $500 minimum in my experience (core price).
That's $2500 but you stand to lose $2K in the wrong circumstance.

Bullydog is about $2800 and you shouldn't lose more than $1200-$1300 unless something goes bad wrong.

PP is about $2400, you can swap parameters at will and you shouldn't lose more than $800-$900.

Diesel Doc is $300 now (apparently) and I don't see how you could lose more than $300.

To each his own.
Buyer beware.
 
From my own research, PP is the most bang for the buck.
If I understand correctly PDI sells a custom ECM that has to be replaced with a recommended 'spare' when you go in for service because the dealer is obligated to program the ECM to certain REQUIRED OEM &/or EPA parameters.
Which, BTW, is the same reason that your dealer can't or won't upload the same tune as somebody like DieselDoc will.

Your right....to a point. Authorized dealers are to upload the latest update to an ECM but is it easy to get around that without the cost of buying another ECM. Behind the dash where the deutsch connector is you just unhook the one wire that is used to download data to the ECM.
Dealers wont tear into the dash without approval from the owner because the owner would have to pay for the time to "work" on the truck. Only a fool would approve a work order just so they can do a "free ECM update".

PP on the other hand can merely be switched off or even completely uninstalled leaving the parameters to the original program.
PP costs about $2400 and will sell on Ebay for $1500 up. So your total investment is about $900 or less.

A Pittsburgh Power Box is only fooling the motor into doing things it normally wont do. Thats why you can only "safely" run it on high for just a few seconds before the motor goes into melt down mode.

Bullydog would be my second choice. The cost is about $2800 and they will work until you're satisfied to provide a custom tune by all accounts. Bullydog also has good resale value without the need to replace the ECM although they charge $100 (last I heard) to de-register your ECM so it will work on the next one.
I dont know a lot about Bullydog BUT it would also be my second choice over a PDI tune.
 
I wouldn't put a PP box on my lawn mower!

Take it to the truckstop Super Dr and you won't have to! Triple your fuel economy and you'll have so much power your grass will stop growing just from the fear of being up against that powerful beast!
 
A Pittsburgh Power Box is only fooling the motor into doing things it normally wont do. Thats why you can only "safely" run it on high for just a few seconds before the motor goes into melt down mode.

Well isn't that the case with everything being discussed here?
Any of the 'tunes' being discussed are unauthorized and I suppose illegal though I've never heard of EPA getting up anyone's arse over it. But the OEM will delete them & restore the authorized version along with updates if they get hold of your truck.

PP Power box can merely be turned off.
Bullydog will retain your original tune plus a standard economy tune, a power tune AND a custom tune that you work out with HQ and d/l to your unit. Any of the tunes are available to you within a few minutes of deciding on it.

That's why PDI looks like the worst bet to me.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top